milliebest

I am about to press that submit button on the airline website but I just need to have my Fodors friends (who have always been there for me) critique my decisions. I wanted to go to Amsterdam and thought about combining it with Ireland. Germany was not a consideration because we did an extensive German vacation all along the Rhine, Mosel , Cologne, Dusseldorf etc. After reading several postings I decided there was a lot to do making my way from Amsterdam to Brussels doing and open jaw to and from New York. My husband and I are retired so we have plenty of time. I had considered Ireland but decided I would either be rushing through Ireland or missing some interesting places in the Netherlands and Brussels.We will be doing public transportation. My husband and I love art, food,outdoor stuff ( I like to bicycle but not in traffic) and we love local happenings. We love outsider art. Here is my itinerary draft:

Fly from NY at the end of August: return from Brussels mid September (19 or 20th)

Spend 5 days in Amsterdam ( Leave early on day 5 and do Hague on way to Delft)
Spend 2 days in Delft
Spend 2 days in Otterlo ( Do Arnhem Open Air Museum and Kroller-Muller Museum)
Spend 6 days in Bruges
Spend 2 days in Antwerp (Side trip to Ghent)
Spend 4 days in Brussels

Home
Did I miss anyplace or am I spending too much or too little time in any one place?

Thanks!

nytraveler

I am usualaly advising people that they are trying to do too many places in too little time. In this case, I would suggest you might want to consider adding something. I reall ythink 4 days in Brussels and 6 in Bruges is kind of much. Severral years ago we took a tripo through eastern Belgium and down through Luxembourg and into the edge of Germany. If you visited eastern Belgium on yuor earlier trip them ignore this.

If not you might consider taking 3 or 4 days from the 10 you have in Bruges/Brussels and spend in the eastern part of the country which is differnt geographically (quite hilly) and has some very pretty/interesting cities and towns (Liege, Spa, over the border to Aachen, etc).

PinBud

I agree, 6 days in Bruges is a lot, unless of course you want to get plenty of sleep and take it very easy. Maybe go to Normandy for a few days?

Sassafrass

I hope you are planning visits to Haarlem & Leiden. I also found The Hague interesting.

I would take two days from either Brussels or Bruges (perhaps a day from each) and actually stay in Ghent rather than do it as a day trip. It is a very, very interesting city. While I like Brugges and have spent a week there, I really, really like Ghent. Now I would be more likely to stay in Ghent and day trip to Bruges.

You can rent bikes in Amsterdam, but also in Bruges and bike all around the outskirts of town (in town too, but a bit rough on the cobblestones), by windmills, along the canal to Damme, etc.

Fantastic ice-cream in Bruges.

lavandula

You have budgeted very generously for all the places you visit. If you have so much time budgeted for Bruges (and I agree it's quite a bit, more than I'd enjoy myself) you could visit some of the surrounding areas. The Belgian coast has a tramline that runs up and down the length of it. Knokke-Heist is a fancy beach resort, while nearby there is a butterfly farm and Het Zwin, a nature reserve, which crosses the Dutch border. And Ieper (Ypres) and surrounds has an important war history - Ieper has the Menin Gate, where you can hear the Last Post played at sunset and see the names of all the Allied forces that died in battle nearby. There is also a war cemetery, Tyne Cot, nearby (you probably need a car for this, but you can also take a tour of the battlefields). There is also a war museum, In Flanders Fields. You could even venture further afield (not sure how you are travelling) and see some of the cities to the south as far as Lille (France), which really isn't all that far away.

And there is enough to do in Brussels for 2 - 3 days, especially if you like museums and are prepared to do some of the city walks. I also recommend getting out into the suburbs to see the Horta Museum and Ixelles, which is a district where the locals live but is quite diverse. From Brussels you might also consider getting out into Wallonia and seeing some of the cities there. Lots more ideas about things to do in and around Brussels if you want.

Lavandula

lavandula

Whoops, meant to say 'Commonwealth forces' rather than Allied forces - US is not represented there. It's all WWI history, if that interests you.

Lavandula

milliebest

I knew I could count on you to help me. People are amazed at what I learn in this forum. I will research all your suggestions and please keep them coming if you have more. I love the suggestion of the Horta Museum and Ixelles.

lavandula

Some ideas in and around Ixelles, not really in the guidebooks:

Ixelles between Avenue Louise (Louise) and Chaussée d'Ixelles (Porte de Namur) is a busy shopping district. Avenue Louise is posh shopping, Chaussée d'Ixelles a little more ordinary. There is a branch of Inno (the department store) at Louise. Depending on how you travel to the Horta, you may need to go via Avenue Louise / Chaussée de Charleroi anyway, if you are going on foot (a good 20 min walk at least). The suburb surrounding the Horta house has quite a few Art Nouveau facades (St. Gilles).

From Louise to Porte de Namur: there are shopping arcades and the main street Avenue de la Toison de l'Or has shops and nice street cafés, including a HEMA (Dutch budget chain where you can get everything, reasonably good quality).

From Chaussée d'Ixelles, if you follow it further (another good long walk, you pass interesting shops and cafés), you will eventually get to Place Flagey and the Etangs d'Ixelles (Ixelles Ponds). The Flagey is an old Art Deco building (significant facade) which is now a cultural centre and has concerts regularly. Place Flagey has a small market on Saturdays and I think also Sunday mornings. Behind the Ixelles Ponds (pretty) there is an old 17th-century abbey (Abbé de la Cambre). I don't think you can go in (not sure), but you can at least walk around it.

Another option: from Porte de Namur metro station instead of heading down Chaussée d'Ixelles, go down Chaussée de Wavre. This is the African district Matongé. There are a lot of interesting shops and ethnic restaurants in this area. Between here and Chaussée d'Ixelles there is also the Museum of Ixelles, which has a significant Toulouse-Lautrec collection. http://www.museedixelles.irisnet.be/

Some other thoughts: www.arau.org has Art Nouveau tours of the city, but because they aren't a commercial tour group but a private group of people interested in the city's architecture, they only offer tours sporadically. You would have to check on their website to see what is available when you are there, and if it's held in a language you understand (sometimes they only offer French tours). Art Nouveau is the predominant style in the suburbs and is very attractive and detailed. You can do some walks on your own with info from the tourist office, ditto a cartoon mural walk.

And lastly: At Gare du Midi on Sunday mornings there is a massive market with a Middle Eastern flavour. Mostly new things, not a flea market. There is a flea market daily at Place du Jeu de Balle, nearby, but it's mornings only.

Just some ideas to get you started.

Lavandula

milliebest

This is great! My husband is a distant relative og Hector Guimard. In Paris, we visited many of the buildings he worked on.

I really appreciate your detail.I went on the website for the Horta. As soon as my days are set I will try to get an appointment.

Cowboy1968

lavandula's tips should be in everybody's pocket when leaving for Brussels
The well-known historic center around Grand Place sure is fine to visit, but if you want to experience a less touristy, local scenery, restaurants, shops etc. Ixelles and Saint-Gilles are best, IMO.
My favorite spots for restaurants are around pl Boniface and Flagey (Ixelles) and pl Trinité (Saint-Gilles). The latter the proverbial stone's throw from the Horta mansion, and has many quirky shops on the square and along rue Baili to Louise.
In the evening, you can eat at many nice restaurants around pl Boniface. For typical Belgian dishes in a non-touristy (and non rip off prices) atmosphere, I lile the Belgo Belge right on the little square next to the church.
http://www.belgobelge.be/?EN.html

Cowboy1968

On your Holland part of the trip:
It may be more convenient to go from Amsterdam to Delft and get yourself settled instead of visiting Den Haag on your way. Both are actually next to each other, and from Delft you can take the tram directly to the center of Den Haag. The train station in more on the edge of the city center.
Delft is really beautiful and I had a great afternoon there yesterday when we had a sunny and warm Whitsunday weekend. You can eat and drink at dozens of quaint places along the grachten and enjoy the beautiful historic town.

By the way, for a "I can't believe this" moment it does not take more than a 15 min train ride from Delft to Rotterdam. If there was ever a capital of contrasts, Rotterdam would win hands down.

Actually, you could take the most unusual day trip of your life if you departed Delft in the morning by train to Rotterdam, spent 2 hours on the signposted city trail (Rotterdam rondje), walked from skyscrapers and cube houses to old Dutch houses, took a peek at the museum harbor, walked across (or took tram) across Erasmus bridge to Wilhelminaplein, had lunch at the New York hotel
http://www.hotelnewyork.nl/index.php...drinken/terras
Afterwards you would take the metro from there to Den Haag (yes, the cities are connected by subway) see the stately capital, and be back at sleepy, quaint Delft for your night cup at one of the pubs.

Vttraveler

In Brussels I definitely agree with others' recommendation to spend time in the Ixelles and St Gilles neighborhoods in Brussels. There are many good side trips to take from Brussels if you feel you don't need all the time you have scheduled there. My husband and I spent 10 days last fall based in Brussels and really enjoyed our time in Belgium.

I think you can do a good self-guided Art Nouveau tour (or two)in Brussels if you have good guide books.

See my trip report for ideas in addition to Brugge, Gent and Antwerp plus some things to do in Brussels
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...etherlands.cfm

milliebest

The trip report was great. I cannot believe all the wonderful details.

2wicky

I would also spend less time in Bruges and more time in Gent and Antwerp. Especially as there is a lot more to do in Antwerp, plus a lot more ground to cover.

And with side trips to Lier, Leuven, Liege or the coast if the weather is good (though the latter may be quite crowded).

Other interesting places: Baarle Hertog/Baarle Nassau wich is a village carved up by enclaves and counter-enclaves between the Netherlands and Belgium. It's close to Breda in NL and I don't think to far from Antwerp either.

For cycling, there is the bicycle node network that started in the Belgian province of Limburg and has now been adopted all over Flanders and in parts of the Netherlands. The network is well marked and allows you to easily map your own routes. The paths tend to avoid heavy traffic and favor more scenic routes.
You can buy maps, or plan your route online (only in Dutch): http://www.fietsnet.be/
My advice would be if the weather allows: take the train to Sint-Truiden, rent bikes there and cycle to the town of Borgloon and explore the area around there. It's a really beautiful area with rolling hills. It's not too tough to cycle through while at the same time, you can enjoy some nice views of the surrounding scenery as it's not all flat.
The area also has a lot of well marked hiking routes.

When in Borgloon, also ask at the tourist office about the outdoor art installations. It's a new but ongoing project, some of which is temporary and other permanent such as the see through church: http://www.z33.be/projecten/gijs-van...-between-lines

And speaking of out door art, if you are in Antwerpen, you could probably easily spend at least half a day at the Middelheim museum. It's a park full of sculptures of all kind.
http://www.middelheimmuseum.be/

In Gent, I would recommend "Huis van Alijn" which is in the center of town and shows displays how a typical Flemish home would have looked like per decade. If you have more time in Gent, go to the Dr Guislain museum. A former mental institute, it now displays the disturbing, but fascinating history of psychiatry during the past centuries. The more well known torture museum in the 't Graven Steen, also in Gent, pales in comparison.

milliebest

Is there anywhere in Amsterdam or Antwerp that is like what Soho used to be like in the US? We love to go to an area where there are artist loafs to visit or outsider type galleries.

2wicky

The only place that comes to mind is the town of Doel just north of Antwerp and in the middle of the harbor area. You can probably get there by bus or perhaps even cycle there. Much of the town has been abandoned, but some 200 people still live there. All the other empty homes have become large canvases for graffiti and other artists.

In Antwerp itself, you are likely to find concept shops and such in and near the historic center. But for something like Soho and art, you might have a better chance in Brussels. Only, it's not going to be obvious and you would have to know someone who is in the scene to be able to show you around.

A good place to start might be the design center "Winkelhaak" in Antwerp.
And "Wiels", an alternative center of modern art in Brussels.

lavandula

This is probably not quite what you're after, but in Brussels the Rue Antoine Dansaert has become a neighbourhood for young designers, new fashion and jewellery makers.

Lavandula

lavandula

Actually you might also check out the Marolles district in Brussels (Rue Haute, Rue Blaes). It's an area which has been gentrified but is still a little gritty ... and there are a lot of furniture stores, art galleries and antiques shops there. Near Place du Jeu de Balle.

Lavandula

Ruby99

Spent 11 days in Belgium in 2010 and would go again ina heartbeat. It was actually my 2nd time in Bruges and while I do like it a lot, my new favorite was Gent! So much to see and do, the food was awesome and I found the people really friendly. I'd recommend at least 2, if not 3 nights.

The best B&B I've ever stayed at was deWaterzooi, worth the slurge

virginiafish

I agree 6 days in Brugge, which I loved, is too much. Biking the canal in Damme is wonderful. I wish we had more time in Ghent.