rhythm_blues

We (a couple in our 50's) are in the early stages of thinking about a trip to Europe, maybe in summer 2024 or maybe farther into the future. We can probably get 2 weeks of vacation approved. We'd like to see a friend who lives in Monaco and another who lives in Bergamo, Italy. I think we'd probably want to have a meal with them, but not ask to stay with them. We'd be more likely to stay in a short-term rental, if available, or a hotel. We would be flying from San Francisco (USA) and would want to fly into one location and out of another, probably taking the train in between, unless it makes sense to rent a car.

How much time would you recommend for each of those cities? Where else should we visit? Looking at a map, it looks like Marseille, Nice, Genoa, and Milan are possibilities. Or maybe skip Marseille and Nice, and see a little more of Italy, Switzerland, or Liechtenstein. What 1-2 additional cities would you recommend for a couple who enjoys museums, parks/gardens, food, and walking/day hiking? What cities would be good to fly in or out of? Which ones might be good day trips from another one? We'd rather see a smaller number of places more deeply than to try to cram everything into the trip. Also, we don't want to stay in a different place every few days: maybe we would stay in 3 different locations over the 2 weeks.

Also, if it helps, both of us have been to Venice but no other part of Italy. One of us has been to Paris, as well as southern France, a very long time ago. We have traveled in other parts of Europe (as well as North America and Asia). I'm sure we'll go to Europe again after this trip, so it's fine that we won't be able to go everywhere this time.

Thanks for any advice you can provide!

Traveler_Nick

Fly into Nice and out of Milan. You could reverse this if it works better.

I'd rather stay in Nice than Monaco.

Summer basically anything is possible . If you like museums heading to Florence might make sense. You could brave the crowds in Cinque Terre for a more outdoor bit.

Florence to Siena or Pisa is an easy daytrip. Other stops are all possible. The smaller towns in the countryside are better with a car but the larger destination train or bus.

You'd be better not driving between the two countries. The rental car drop fees can be pretty high. Nice is almost right on the border. Florence to Milan is all high speed rail line and much better than driving.

There are plenty of smaller towns on both the French and Italian coasts but it'll be high beach season.

bilboburgler

Even Nice would be better than Monaco
Bergamo, does your friend live in the high town or the low town? I might look at the old town to stay

Turin, Milan, Lucca, Pisa, Siena, Firenze, Urbino, Roma

I'd not start wasting your time dashing off to other parts of Europe, you are already in a sweet spot

neckervd

Maxy be you fly from SFO to MXP, go then by train (about 2 1/2 hrs each) to either Varenna/Lake Como or Desenzano/Lake Garda resp Peschiera/Lake Garda, stay there for a few days and visit Bergamo from there (1 1/2 hrs by train OW).
Possible day trips
from Varenna:
Milan 1 hrOW by train
Lugano and Bellinzona castles (Switzerland) 2hrs OW,
Glaciers of Bernina Diavolezza (Switzerland) 3 1/2 hrs OW by train and gondola
Lake Como cruises to scenic villages and botanical gardens

from Desenzano/Peschiera:
Verona (amphitheatre, churches, medieval city center, museums)
Cremona
Mantova
Brescia, Lake Iseo and Capo di Ponte Unesco site
Lake Garda cruises

You may then proceed to Florence/Tuscany for about 4-5 days.

Go then by train via Genoa to San Remo, Ventimiglia or Menton (5 1/2 - 6 1/2 hrs), visit Monaco from there and spend the last night close to Nice airport.

You may also spend your time at Rome instead of Florence and reach Nice from there by plane (Wizzair and easijet flights are actually available for some 30 USD/pax, without luggage).

coral22

This sounds like a lovely trip!
Are you interested in beach time?
If not, you said you are open to pushing back the trip, so I would go ahead and do that, maybe sometime the last 2 weeks of September into the first 2 weeks of October? I think you have missed the sweet spot for airfare bargains and hotel prices/availability, so why compete with the beach lovers during season? Also, the Olympics are in Paris this summer and it is the 80th anniversary of the invasion into Normandy, so you are competing for rooms with a lot people in the area, who will continue on to other locations nearby.

Are you interested in getting a car, or train travel? This will change your options. If you want to get a flight within Europe, start plugging in possibilities to find the best value and the easiest nonstops. You have a lot of wonderful options, what is your ideal mix of experiences: mountains, water views, countryside, city energy? Are cultural, history, museums, hiking, or food/wine opportunities your priorities? You will get a lot of great recommendations here, what is sounding like what you are dreaming of??

jan47ete

I did one month in Northern Italy last year with a week in Milan, Turin, Genoa and Bologna. I will go to Marseille next month just as arrival and departure point for a month in Provence although will get to spend parts of 3 days there.

99.9 % of my trips I love, love love. Only place in 60 years of traveling I did not care for was Genoa. I stayed in an apt in the old lighthouse and that was the highlight of my trip. Adored Bologna if you want to go out of your way, slightly, and really like Turin a lot. Met up with 2nd cousins in Bergamo where my grandfather was from so Citta Alta is pretty special for me and overall wonderful. Enjoy.

Michael

Gardens to visit on the Riviera:

gooster

I would agree that you should plan your trip carefully --- either go in June or towards the very end of August to early September. Italy's summer season peaks around the 15th of August, a major national holiday. The Olympics may add some spillover, and primarily just avoid the day the soccer prelims are held in Nice. (Context: from Norcal, place in Nice, former expat in Switzerland with offices in Milan --- been everywhere throughout Northern Italy and the Cote d'Azur, and throughout Switzerland).

You can try to stay in Monaco but your choices may be limited. You can stay in Nice (Chagall Museum, Matisse Museium) or Villefranche-sur-Mer (village, beach) and have easy access to Monaco, Menton (Gardens, Cocteau Museum) or Antibes (Picasso Museum) via train. You can also take a journey to places like Eze, St. Paul de Vence (Fondation Maeght), Cap Ferrat (Villa Ephrussi) by bus. There are also some good coastal walk around Cap Ferrat, up Mont Boron and around Cap d"Antibes. From Nice, there are trains that head into the mountains, and day hiks are possible.

Bergamo's upper old town is lovely. You can day trip into Milan as well via train. You could drive into Tuscany and go to Florence if you have not been. You can easily take the train between Milan and the Lake Geneva region, and into mountain areas with great day hikes too (or go to Lugano). Return flights from Geneva are a possibility too. This might be too much for three weeks, though.

Don't go to Lichtenstein. It is very unmemorable (sorry to the residents) and stop people make to get a passport fake stamped. Marseille is quite a ways a way to do a day trip.

rhythm_blues

Thank you for so many good suggestions! Going in fall sounds like it may be better than summer. We'll keep thinking about it and let you know. Thanks again!

TDudette

If you are going in the Fall, I gently suggest starting in the north and leaving from the south.