plambers

Hi. DD and I plan to visit Japan and maybe South Korea next May/June after she graduates college. I prefer to base myself in a location for a few days or longer rather than constantly moving. Looking at a mix of vrbo rentals, hotels and and a ryokan or two.

this is my initial plan but have not even figured out how train tickets work yet. would love feedback if we should really stay overnight at any of these locations rather than do as a daytrip. Am I missing anything?

Tokyo-4 or 5 nights with day trips to Nikkol and Hakone

Takayana or Ogimachi 2 nights with day trip to the other location

Kyoto-7 or 8 nights with day trips to Osaka, Nara, Koyosan

Hiiroshima or Miyajima 2 nights.

Many thanks

mrwunrfl

>> Tokyo-4 or 5 nights with day trips to Nikkol and Hakone
With the two day trips you really would want it to be a five-night stay so that you have two full days for Tokyo. You can use the Tobu Railway train for Nikko and Odakyu Electric Railway for Hakone. Each of those locations are worth at least one overnight. Both of those rail companies have rail passes. Nikko World Heritage Pass and Hakone Free Pass. JR has a "wide area" pass that might work and there are a couple of very useful JR lines in Tokyo, but the fares are very inexpensive.
Nikko Pass: Nikko World Heritage Area Pass and Nikko All Area Pass (japan-guide.com)
Hakone Free Pass (Hakone Freepass) (japan-guide.com)

>>Takayana or Ogimachi 2 nights with day trip to the other location
Ogimachi would be the day trip with the nights in Takayama. Would definitely be better to make this 3 nights. Takayama is on the JR Takayama Line.

Kyoto-7 or 8 nights with day trips to Osaka, Nara, Koyosan
The length of this stay is longer than a 7-day JR Pass. But a 7-day pass would likely be useful for your travel where day 7 is the day you arrive in Kyoto. That pass is not useful in Kyoto and the fares to Osaka an Nara are not expensive. There is a separate pass for Koyasan as JR doesn't go there.

Hiiroshima or Miyajima 2 nights.
Another night here would be better. But, then what? Are you departing Japan from Hiroshima (HIJ) airport?

This pass might be useful for you:
JR Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass (japan-guide.com)

plambers

thanks so much. i am not conversant at all with the trains and passes available. So I only want to stay in Kyoto 6 nights to maximize the 7 day JR pass? I need to research this JR pass to understand how to maxiize its value. I know the price is to go up 70 percent this year.

If I stay overnight at Hakone, 4 nights would work at Tokyo. I had found a lovely ryoken in Omigachi. but I can find another ryoken.

Can add Takayama night for 3. I don't like moving too much but appreicaite your guidance on when to use a base but when to move.

I am not sure what else I am missing after Hiroshima. I can add as needed with guidance and suggestions. We will visit S Korea aftger Japan. Many thanks

mrwunrfl

>> So I only want to stay in Kyoto 6 nights to maximize the 7 day JR pass?

No. Stay as long as you like in Kyoto.

The 7-day pass is good for a 6-night trip. It is a calendar day, not 24-hour days. If you started the pass on a Sunday (at any time of day) then it would be good until 11:59 PM on the following Saturday. Put another way, if you started the pass on the 1st of the month then it would be good through the 7th of the month.

You could fly to Korea from Hiroshima or Fukuoka. There are ferries. If you did that then you would just pay the fare from Kyoto to Hiroshima.

But here is an itinerary that could use a 7-day JR Pass, with three nights, two full days, in each of two locations:
Day 1: Tokyo to Takayama
Day 2: Takayama
Day 3: Day trip to Ogimachi, Shirakawago, 3rd night in Takayama
Day 4: Takayama to Hiroshima
Day 5: Hiroshima/Miyajima
Day 6: Hiroshima/Miyajima, third night in Hiroshima
Day 7: Hiroshima to Kyoto
...
Fly from Osaka to S. Korea.

mrwunrfl

>> lovely ryoken in Omigachi
Which one?

You could spend two nights in Takayama, bus to Ogimachi and spend one night. Then bus to Kanazawa to get a train and head to Hiroshima. I would advise the first night be in Hiroshima. Three nights there or maybe the second night at a lovely ryokan on Miyajima. (or 3rd night on Miyajima, just make the first night to be in Hiroshima because it will be a fairly long travel day and getting to Hiroshima will be enough)

plambers

Thanks so very much for your help here. Can I ask if I am missing anything big? Does this look like a good plan with varied sites like cities, nature, baths etc? Also would be second half of May and into June.

Can I ask how you'd handle Kyoto? Are all the destinations good for a day trip or should I stay in anohter destination like Osaka for a few nights? My daughter is reallly excited about the food scene there. And how would I maximize the JR pass, which is now especially important given the 70 percent increase.

Again, thanks so much. I thought i was pretty well travelled but Japan is complicated!

mrwunrfl

You have a good plan for a first trip to Japan.

You mentioned "baths" but you don't have an onsen location (you could find one in Takayama, the public bath hours at the Green Hotel

>> Can I ask how you'd handle Kyoto?
You mean Kansai, the region including Kyoto, Osaka, and Nara. Sure, you could day trip. I would move and not day trip,

>> daughter is reallly excited about the food scene there
That is a solid reason for visiting (and staying in) Osaka. If you wanted to visit an onsen town there is an "onsen bus" from Osaka to Arima Onsen (i have not been there). Osaka has Spa World which is interesting and right in the city. I only went there for a soak but there was more going on.

>> . And how would I maximize the JR pass
I gave you a 7-day itinerary to do just that. Basically, just move the Kansai stuff to the end, after Hiroshima.

plambers

Where would I fit in an onsen visit? I also don't believe we have any castles. An onsen visit might be good in the middle so we can relax for a day...thanks so much.

mrwunrfl

I gave onsen info in my last post!

You can visit Himeji Castle on the way to/from Hiroshima. It is not far from Osaka or Kyoto. Osaka Castle is worth visiting if you stay in Osaka. It is reconstruction but is impressive and it is in a nice park.

>> maximize the JR pass, which is now especially important given the 70 percent increase.
It is not that important. The price increase makes it less important. The price of the pass is that much closer to to the pay-as-you-go price.. If is less valuable because it saves less, though allowing use on Nozomi is a good thing, especially with an itinerary like yours. The price hike (due to JR Central) makes other, regional passes, more valuable.

mrwunrfl

I forgot about Hakone. There are lots of opportunities for an onsen visit in Hakone. There are lodgings with an onsen bath for guests and for (non-guest) public use. You can find places that offer reservations for private use by guests.

plambers

I am thinking of a night in Hakone rather than a day trip as it seems there is alot to see and do here. Do you have any reasonably priced lodgings with an onsen bath for us? Also, she has a very small tatoo on her ankle. Thinking she should put a bandaid on this to cover it up?

Is a public onsen like a public heated pool? What are the ones like at a lodging? Just smaller with less guests? Do you go in at night or at any time?

Also, was wondering about lodging in general. What is it like sleeping on a tatami mat? Or do most folks just look for bedding similiar to US? I'd like to try it but not if I get a terrible sleep!

mrwunrfl

What is reasonably priced? A stay at a traditional ryokan typically includes a kaiseki dinner and breakfast with lodging. You can expect to pay $150 per person and it goes up from there. Typically, the rooms are "Japanese style" which means it has futons for sleeping. Some places also offer "Japanese-Western style" which means a Western. In both case, the room is layed in a traditional Japanese style. There are also ryokan hotels which offer Western-style and/or Japanese-style rooms/bedding. There are other types of ryokan but in all cases, if they have an onsen bath then they are onsen ryokans. (that is to say that not all ryokan have onsen (the Japanese words for onsen and ryokan (nouns) are singular and plural))

I have only stayed at a very inexpensive minshuku in Hakone, over 20 years ago, and would not recommend it.

I have read about traditional onsen ryokan up a hill near Hakone-Yumoto station. There is a free shuttle that can be arranged (to some extent you can expect a ryokan to be able to pick you up at the station). Two of those places are mentioned in this article.

Hakone Hot Spring Baths (Onsen) - Hakone Travel (japan-guide.com)

The following webpage has info about Hakone, but you can poke around the site to find descriptions of ryokan style and what to expect when staying there. I think there is also a description or how to use an onsen.

Hakone Ryokans | Ryokan Experts, Reviews, Personalized Service | Japanese Guest Houses

Forgot to mention that one-third to one-half of the cost of a ryokan stay is the kaiseki dinner (and breakfast). Some places have room-only options or room+breakfast. Maybe Yumoto-town has lodging like that with nearby restaurants.

mrwunrfl

>> s a public onsen like a public heated pool?
Sort of. The big difference is that the onsen bath will be much hotter. Expect the water to be about 40C or 104F. (the knobs on faucets used in bathing, e.g. in the shower or tub in your hotel room, often have a really obvious red spot identifying the 30C mark - i still wonder if that is a standard or recommended comfort level, or if the red color is a kind if warning that it gets really hot if you go past it). The other big difference is that you don't wear a swimsuit.

>> What are the ones like at a lodging? Just smaller with less guests?
They are the same (most of the time,maybe). These days, saying you want to go to a "public onsen" often means you will go to a lodging that has an onsen bath that is open to the public during certain hours of the day for a fee. Overnight guests can use the bath as they like during posted hours (they will prominently advise you at booking that there is a 150 yen government fee for onsen use which is kinda funny when the rate is 30,000 yen, but you pay it separately at checkout)

There are some public onsen baths in structures built for the purpose, like this awesome one: Dogo Onsen - Matsuyama Travel (japan-guide.com)

The baths at lodgings can be small such that guests would need to take turns. Some places have multiple large baths that can accommodate dozens of people. Most are somewhere in between.

Here is another link where they have it about right:
The Ultimate Guide to Onsen Hot Spring Etiquette and Where to Enjoy a Japanese Bath | LIVE JAPAN travel guide