tvis09

Hello All,
I've recently joined Fodors and would like to received some suggestions on 16 nights Europe trip budget. I was thinking to allocate 10k USD for me and my wife travel. but after checking hotels, flights trains, tours etc, that budget is getting inflated to 15k USD
Budget is all inclusive i.e. flights, hotels, tours, trains, food, insurance etc. all included. I thought $10k was bit generous but with $15k i am rethinking if I need to drop one or 2 countries or entire trip altogether.

Here are more details about trip. I know its lot of travel but I am reaching out for budget and planning help.

Dates - 26th May leave from Texas, US and return on 12th June.
Flights to/from Europe costing us $4600 which is at least 2k USD more than I anticipated.
Total travelers - 2; we are not luxury travelers but consider as more of a mid-range. Only luxury spend we will doing is in Santorini for nice suite with Caldera view/infinity pool etc.
Planned itinerary - US -> flight -> Paris (3 nights) -> Train -> Lucerne (2 nights) -> Train -> Murren (2 nights) -> Train -> Zurich (only to fly out) -> flight -> Venice (1 night) -> Train > Rome and Vatican (2 nights -> Train -> Salerno (1night) -> Ferry -> Positano (1 night) -> Ferry -> Salerno -> Train -> Rome (only to fly out) -> flight -> Santorini (3 nights) -> Flight - AThens (1 night) -> flight -> US
Preferences for hotels
- Safe, close to public transportation and should be within 20-25 mins of travel to/from cities.
Preference for flight
- No overnight stayover.

janisj

Welcome to Fodors,

Now the bad news IMO/IME your planned itinerary is really rushed -- so much so that you might as well throw away that $15,000.

What you have is:
• US -> flight -> Paris 3 nights which equals 2 days and one of those is likely jet lagged.

• Train to Lucerne 2 nights = 1 day

• Train to Murren 2 nights = 1.5 days

• Train -> Zurich -> flight -> Venice 1 night which will net a few evening hours for Venice. Almost criminal.

• Train > Rome 2 nights = 1 day for all of Rome/Vatican -- silly waste of time and money

• Train Salerno 1night = half a day

• Ferry Positano 1 night = half a day

• Ferry Salerno -> Train -> Rome -> flight -> Santorini 3 nights = 2 days

• Flight - Athens 1 night = half a day for Athens

• Flight -> US

I don't intend to be mean - but this is a dreadful itinerary and very VERY expensive. Back to the drawing board.

Travel_Nerd

I don't want to pile on with the already helpful advice Janis provided, but the more you move, the more it costs you. Not only in money, but in time. You have so much moving, that you're not actually seeing anything - except airports and train stations.

For your time, think about limiting to 3 - 4 cities at most, with day trips if feasible. And consider "grouping" them. You can do a fantastic 16 day itinerary of Italy to include Rome, Venice, Amalfi area, and maybe even the Lakes district to give you a mountain feel that you'd might get in Switzerland - this is an example, of course.

lavandula

If you are concerned about budget (and let's face it, those airfares are bad for everyone nowadays), I'd substitute rural France for Switzerland. Switzerland has to be one of the most expensive countries on the planet. I would also think about self-catering for much of your trip to push down costs. In rural France look for gites, in cities look for apartments or 'aparthotels'.

Annecy is almost Geneva, but cheaper and quite charming.

Lavandula

lavandula

And another thought - if you based in Annecy there is nothing stopping you from taking excursions into Switzerland, taking your picnic lunch with you (to avoid pricy restaurants; you will also avoid pricier accommodation). Fill the car in France also.

Lavandula

KTtravel

Am I correct that you plan to take this trip in just a few weeks? In that case, airfare and hotel rates will be very high. I agree with the others about re-planning the trip and limiting it to three or four locations at the most so you can enjoy your time there and actually have time for sightseeing, strolling, enjoying good food, etc. As it is you will be spending an inordinate amount of time on planes, trains and ferries with little time to enjoy yourselves.

MichGuy

Have to agree with the comments here about your itinerary. Too many short stops and too much travel. Focus.

About your budget: My wife and I traveled in Switzerland in 2022 and 2019. Our cost was US$325 - 350 per day for both of us, excluding air fares. We travel by train and stay in three star hotels. I use booking.com to find our hotels and spend a lot of time on it. I put us in hotels that are close to the train station or a bus trip away and serve a good breakfast. I want them rated 8 or higher and read the reviews. I think that picking the right hotels is a big part of our travel budget. We usually get a light lunch while out and about (sandwiches) but have a nice sit down dinner, hopefully with local cuisine. We don't spend a lot of money on "activities" but do what we want -- museums, cable cars (we're big on hiking), castles.

Too bad about your air fares. Yes, they've gone way up this year. I looked at Kayak to get a feel for your trip (DFW - CDG then ATH - DFW) and all the economy fares were $1800 to $2400.

janisj

You would spend more time traveling than seeing/doing anything . . . Out of 16 total days you have 10 days in transit. (Actually 10.5 days because of the overnight flight to Paris).

You don't need to cancel the whole trip -- But if you say limited yourselves to Paris and Italy you'd have a LOT more time for sightseeing and exploring, a LOT less time on trains/ferries/planes/airports/train stations, and . . . spend a LOT less money. Or even better - do just France or just Italy. Either would have plenty to fill your 14 nights on the ground

Jean

You lost me at 4 countries in 16 days... and I count 5!! flights!

Is this your Amazing Race?

tvis09

hi everyone,
Thank you for your suggestions and comments, I appreciate it. seems like there is common theme of reducing an entire country or two here.
only reason I was trying to fit that many countries in is I can not afford to travel every year or every 2 years to Europe. and if I am going to invest $4k in flights then why not to cover more. But I understand where all of you are coming from.

Do you think if I leave out Santorini and Amalfi then it would be manageable or you think its best to leave out entire Swiss or Italy. I am flexible on dates if that helps as long as its not too much into summer because that means more crowd and more expense.

KarenWoo

I agree with what everyone on this forum has said. Your itinerary is way too rushed and too hectic. You will end up seeing very little of the places you are visiting. You will spend more time in airports and train stations than anywhere else. Only 3 nights in Paris??? Only 2 nights in Rome??? Both of these cities are major European capitals, and you could easily spend a week in each city. We did just that and still didn't see everything. And you need time for strolling, exploring neighborhoods, relaxing at cafes, etc. Stop and smell the roses!

If it were me, I would spend 16 days in one country, or at the most, 2 countries.

For example, last May we spent 16 nights in Greece. Our itinerary was Santorini, Naxos, Nafplio on the Peloponnese Peninsula, and Athens. I would choose Greece if it were me. So far it's the least expensive country we have visited. And you could easily spend all 16 nights in France or Italy as well.

KarenWoo

We posted at the same time. In my post I suggest spending all your time in Greece because it is the least expensive country of all your choices. But a two country option could be France and Italy. This way you get to see 2 different countries. My husband and I have never spent more then $8,000 on a 2.5 week trip. And we stay in nice places. They aren't luxurious but they are clean, centrally located, and have nice ambiance, and usually include breakfast. Of course, I realize airfares have gone up this year but $15,000 is ridiculous. I guarantee you will run yourself ragged with your current itinerary and won't remember anything you saw.

Sassafrass

You are already getting good advice about going to too many places. Trying to “fit in a lot” is a common and very costly mistake. Giving that idea up will allow you to take a much cheaper trip and perhaps travel more often. Every hour you spend on planes, in airports, on trains and in train stations is costing you more than what you would spend if you were on the ground, actually seeing something of Europe. It becomes a simple choice of spending thousands of dollars to fly around over Europe, seeing the insides of planes and airports, stopping barely long enough for photos, or being in a few places long enough to sight see, take in some major museums and cathedrals, eat some great food, walk in neighborhoods to soak up a bit of atmosphere, look at the landscape, etc. Logistically, when time spent traveling is more than time spent sightseeing, it is time to rethink the plan.

Also, one can rush around at a fast pace for a few days, but after a week or so, you fade, things start to look alike, you forget what day it is, you want to sleep. On a two week trip, there are exceptions, but there should generally be NO one night stays

16 nights is 15 full days. Arrival and departure days do not count as sightseeing, (jet lag, etc). Any move from place to place eats up 1/2 to more of a day. Three places uses at least two 1/2 days between (now down to 13 full days and 2 (1/2 days). Half days do not give as much good sightseeing time because of orienting yourself to a new city. I am sorry, but that is the reality of travel.

You are already into crowds and expense, and too late in the game for a good choice of hotels in many places. Best, reasonably priced places are often booked way ahead and take some research. Can you wait and go in mid to late September? That would at least give you a little time to get a plan together.
Is Switzerland a must-see right now? It is so expensive and it would be way easier to keep the whole trip to two or three countries with only three or four major stops and other smaller places that are easily connected between the major ones, by train.

If you could go to only one country, which would you choose? Which would your wife choose? If you could go to only one major city, or area, which would that be for each of you? Start with those. Post them. People can help you put a together a logical itinerary.

Just ideas on how it might go, no particular order of places, just some combos. All depends on your wish list.
Paris, Venice, Rome (all with a day trip or two, or one other city squeezed in)
Paris, Rome, Amalfi Coast
Paris, Strasbourg, Italian Lakes, Venice
Paris, Italian Alps, Venice, Rome
Amsterdam (The Netherlands and Belgium), Switzerland, Rome
Rome, Greek Islands, Athens
Venice, Tuscany, Rome, Amalfi Coast
Many, many options. Just keep them to a short list

i know this is a lot, but hope it is helpful and encouraging. It will be worth the extra time planning.

janisj

Rookie mistake When budget is an issue this sort of crazy itinerary is even WORSE. Every time you travel from one point to another you spend more $$$$/€€€€. All that transport costs (a lot) of money. Money that could be spent actually seeing/doing things. Plus with limited vacation time do you really want to spend half your time sitting in airports/planes/buses/trains. Thought not.

You want to maximize your time on the ground and minimize the expenses by picking 3 places - 4 max. (And if budget is really an issue one of those places probably shouldn't be in Switzerland)

tomboy

1. No one has asked what both your interests are.
2. It appears to me you've never been up high, or seen a mountain or a beach before. Never been to South Padre Island? PS. when you're ON a mountain, picture a LOT of grey rock, and gravel. I was very disappointed in the Matterhorn, and Zermatt. My lasting impression is "at least gravel pits have water, and greenery"
3. You don't say whether the $10K/$15K includes or excludes the $4K airfare.
4. Even if this was your only trip to Europe in your lifetime, do the 3 days + arrival day in Paris. It is THE neatest city in Europe, and is renowned so for a reason. Research it ahead of time, so that you: a)stay in the sector close to what you want to see; b) narrow your sightseeing to what "lights your candles"'; c) allow time for at least 1 hour just chillin' at an outdoor cafe; d) see the 9PM light show at the Eiffel Tower; e) eat French food....no Asian, no McDonalds, no Mexican.....just French only..........there IS nothing like it (but don't go cheap in 6 trips to France, we only had 3 sub-par meals....but that's 'cause we went cheap those 3 days)
5. In 2017, we rented a car for 19 days; cost about $480 total. We self-toured all 6 trips. If you research B&B websites for France, you can get nice accommodations in the countryside for 70 euro/nite, for spartan. 100/ for nice.. In Paris, we found similar B&Bs, and a hotel near the Gare d Lyon for about 100 euro/night....not posh, but close to TGV hi-speed train to Provence
6. Also, if you google "tourist info office + name of French town" , you'll get the website of the TI (tourist info bureau) of that town; Usually, if you hit it about 4 PM, they'll know of accommodations in town or outside of it. Plan ahead, and even more choice.

cdnyul

The first concept I learned in an investment analysis class was that of sunk costs.

Airfare is a sunk cost. Stay in Europe for a day or a year, the cost is what it is.
The rest of your budget can be spent on a crazy weekend in London, or a month hostels with shared bathrooms.

FWIW, excluding airfare, our costs are about $220/day, usually stay about eight nights
One country, usually Spain, stay in the Paradores, Eurostars or Marriots, we don't like to eat late so not too many dinners, mostly late lunches and daily specials
We don't use public transit, rental car only, avoid tourist traps and so-called must sees.

janisj

Sorry tomboy, but prices -- whether rental cars or B&Bs / hotels in 2017 have nothing to do with prices in 2023. Not even close. Rental cars are a good 3 - 4 times more expensive now and even more with one way or inter-country drop offs.

A hotel where I stayed in 2018 for less than €150 now charges close to €300 . . .

tvis09

1. interests are actually to visit core european places which one wont experience in north america or anywhere else e.g. Paris, Rome, Venice etc. My wife is more interested in Swiss and Santorini
2. Been to Rockies and Himalayas but think that every mountain/valley is majestic in their own way but that could be just me.
3. I did include in my post that total budget is all inclusive e.g. all flights, hotels, trains, food, insurance etc.

tvis09

Thats right, hotel and flight cost alone are up by good 3-4K USD out of that 2K are in flights for 2 people. And except Santorini we're not even planning luxury hotels. I am sure I am not best when it comes to finding great deals and on top booking this late will have its cons as well

janisj

You seem to be focusing on the budget over anything else. Budget can be massaged, tinkered with, made to fit . . .

Your problem is the itinerary - trying to cover a month+ worth of places in 2 weeks. Paris, Rome, Venice etc. (whatever that includes), Switzerland and Santorini is not a 14 day trip. Just isn't.