tera_denten

Hello! Working on a Scotland itinerary for August 2023. I’d like to nail this down ASAP so I can get accommodations booked, but I think my plan needs some help/tweaks from the experts.

Background: we will be a party of 4 - myself and my husband (late 30s, well traveled. Husband will be the driver, he’s driven everywhere and loves it) and my in-laws (late 60s, fairly active, very go with the flow). This is everyone’s first trip to Scotland. The entire group defers to me for all planning. I love that they trust me but lots of pressure to get it just right. We love beautiful drives, easy hikes, good food, history, lots of nature, and wildlife spotting. My favorite souvenirs are photos, so I have been known to go out of my way for a good photo opportunity. We like to avoid 1-night stays when possible.

Here is my idea...

2 Nights Inverness
Land EDI early. Get a rental car and drive to Inverness, with stops at Stirling and Doune Castles. Would it be too much to try for Balmoral too? Arrive in Inverness late afternoon. Spend the next day exploring Culloden Battlefield, Clava Caverns, maybe a drive around Loch Ness, see Inverness

3 Nights Skye
Drive Inverness to Skye. Applecross detour if good weather? Lunch in Plockton? Base in Portree? Then 2 full days to explore Skye.

3 Nights Lewis / Harris
Ferry Skye to Lewis/Harris. Thinking one base for 3 nights to explore both Lewis and Harris. Not sure where to base?

3 Nights Uist
Ferry to Uist. Thinking one base for 3 nights to explore N. Uist, S. Uist, and a day trip to Barra? Our family name is McGreal, a derivative of MacNeil so it seems a shame to come all this way and not see Kisimul Castle (from the beach, I know it is closed for renovations). Is this too much?

2 Nights TBD
I’m not sure exactly what to do after taking the ferry back to the mainland..

Oban? But it seems the big draw is a day trip to Mull, Iona, and Staffa, but not sure we will want to do more ferries/time on the water. Perhaps this is a bigger draw for those not doing the Outer Hebrides?

Loch Lomond? Not sure exactly where we would base but looks like a beautiful area and different than what we have already seen.

Glencoe? If we took the ferry to Mallaig, perhaps we have a chance to see Glennfinnian (HP fan here) and then base in Glencoe and do a little hiking? Fort Williams doesn’t seem to be a good fit for us.

Glasgow? I think my husband and I would like Glasgow but not sure my in-laws would. Plus we will still have the car (plan on returning it on arrival in Edinburgh).

3 Nights Edinburgh
Want to end in Edinburgh so we can return the car, and be well-placed for our return flight. We can take our time getting to Edinburgh that first day — maybe this is a better place to put Sterling and Doune? And then that leaves 2 full days to explore Edinburgh (with no car).

A few final thoughts…

Spent a lot of time debating between the Northern Highlands/NC500 and Orkney instead of the Outer Hebrides. At the end of the day, both look amazing but the wildness of the Outer Hebrides and the ancestral connection gave the Outer Hebrides the advantage.

Open to flipping the order and going clockwise instead of counterclockwise but was trying to avoid having to “waste” our last night in Edinburgh to be in place for our flight home if we already spent a few nights there at the front of the trip. We typically fly open jaw to avoid this kind of thing but the flights to Scotland next summer are outrageously priced and in/out of EDI is the best I’ve been able to find. We are flying from ORD on 7/30 and returning on 8/16.

Very grateful for all feedback/ideas/suggestions. THANK YOU!

janisj

Before I read through the rest of your plan -- just re day 1 . . . are you flying in long haul?? If so, your plan for the first day isn't a good idea at all. Driving to Inverness after an overnight flight(s) is hard enough, even dangerous. It isn't just jet lag but well documented micro sleeps that one doesn't even realize is happening. But even IF you are only flying in from LHR or DUB or CDG or AMS/etc, trying to squeeze in Doune, Stirling and Balmoral would be basically impossible. That is close to a 6 hour drive without a single stop. With a minimum 2 hrs at Stirling Castle, 1 hr at Doune, and an hour+ or so at Balmoral -- you are talking a minimum 10 hour day. Without Balmoral it is still a slog - a 4+ hour drive plus stops. Just a bad idea all around You likely wouldn't get to Inverness by late afternoon - late evening is more like it. And definitely no time for photo op stops.

So please clarify if you are flying in from the States or other long haul . . . now I'll read through the rest of the itinerary.

tera_denten

Yes - long haul from ORD. I figured we would need to skip Balmoral and can do Stirling / Duone at end of the trip (I mention later in the post).

Will keep looking for open-jaw fights - maybe I will get lucky and find something into INV and out of EDI and pay extra for returning the car in EDI.

Another thought... how difficult is it to get from EDI to the train station? Then train to INV?

I do get your point, but when flying from the US to Europe nonstop, we always get a solid 5-6 hours and hit the ground running. For example... ORD to DBV, we landed, rented a car, drove to Kotor, went sightseeing, went to dinner, then woke up the next morning and went on a big hike. No issues, no jetlag. I would not suggest this if we were, say, flying to Asia and completely turned around. But in the event that we have a bad flight and don't sleep well... I get it. I'll keep looking for other options.

Thank you!

janisj

Sorry but past experience doesn't mean the same thing happens next time. When the Europeans start posting in response they may not be as 'gentle' as my post was - their general consensus is - 'please don't put us in jeopardy for your convenience'. Plus driving on the other side of the road from the other side of the car after an overnight flight is an even harder transition.

But as I posted even IF you decide to do this drive -- there is no time to visit 2 or 3 castles en route. So yes -- look for a connecting flight into INV, or take the tram from EDI into Waverly Station (actually St Andrew Square and short walk) and take a train to Inverness . . . or for something completely different fly into LHR, take a car service to Euston Station and the sleeper train to Inverness. Leaves Euston at 9PM or 11:30 PM and arrives at Inverness at 8:45AM or noon.

OR -- you can fly into GLA, head into the city center and take the train to Inverness from Queen Street Station.

Where ever you spend the first night - don't get the car til the next day.

I still haven't really digested the full itinerary but just a comment re Scotland in August. It is INSANE Edinburgh literally triples in size because of all the festivals, the Fringe and the Tattoo. That means that every site (restaurant, pub, museum, castle. etc) is totally slammed. Hotels charge 2-3 times the rates they charge in July or September, and just walking say the Royal Mile is like Mardi Gras in NOLA only even bigger crowds. Just a warning that any time spent in Edinburgh will be a huge hassle. It is a great time to be there IF the Tattoo or Fringe is the purpose of the trip -- but a lousy time to visit if you want to sightsee. This is not my photo but just one I pulled to give you and idea. https://news.sky.com/story/edinburgh...shows-12346915 The image is the Royal Mile near St Giles Cathedral -- and it is like this every day for the whole month. Edinburgh in August is just a unique situation.

And Skye will be a mad house in August. The Island is large and can absorb a fair number of visitors. But the roads are very narrow, there is little parking at the scenic spots and visiting in August in August can be a huge (HUGE) hassle. If you can plan a trip that doesn't include Edinburgh and Skye you will have a much easier and much cheaper trip.

OR if you can possibly travel in July or September . . . EVERYTHING/EVERYPLACE will be easier.

tera_denten

Yep, point taken re: car. Researching other options.

Definitely don't want the festival crowds. I think we can shift to September, wouldn't mind another month to plan either!

janisj

Headed to bed . . . but September would be soooooooo much better both crowds and cost-wise.

Gardyloo

It sounds like you may be re-imagining this trip given the timing; I agree with Janis that both Skye and especially Edinburgh are very different in August than they are most of the rest of the time. Now it should be said that that's not a terrible thing PROVIDED you know what you're getting into. While yes, it's mobbed and yes, prices for accommodations shoot up, there's no more electric place on earth than Edinburgh during the various festivals. Just as a thought experiment, what if you landed in Edinburgh at the end of the festival period - 26 Aug for the Tattoo, 27 Aug for the "big" (no longer) Festival, 28 Aug for the Fringe - and took a couple of days without a car to get your body clocks adjusted, while maybe seeing a couple of events? The cost savings with no car might balance out the higher hotel costs... You could walk around the city, enjoy some of the parks and pubs, get used to things, then when you DO hit the road, you're not impaired by jetlag.

Anyway, to the road trip part of the plan. Note these are all just personal opinions and many might disagree.

Just my view, but your current/previous plan really allocates a lot of time to the Hebrides, and while I can understand that impulse, it also means that days in the Western Isles are days you can't spend someplace else. Scotland is such a "target rich" little country that striking a balance can be unexpectedly difficult. It's not mandatory, of course; you can focus on the Western Isles all you want, as long as you know what else you might be missing. ("Opportunity cost" is the economics term, I believe.)

Just as a "what if" example, what if you focused on your ancestral links to the islands and limited yourselves to Barra and Vatersay? There's a lot to see in a very compact area, but you'd still get a vivid picture of life in the Western Isles with a couple of days rather than most of a week as currently planned (which doesn't include Barra as far as I can see, hence the "dangling" reference to Castle Kisimul.)

If you did and given that Barra is accessed by Calmac ferry from Oban, the second big "what if" question would be to swap Mull for Skye and add some time in Argyll instead of Wester Ross. I tend to be something of a broken record on this, so take it in that spirit, but Skye's popularity can measurably reduce one's enjoyment of the island - shortage of accommodations, congestion at key sites, things like that. These problems peak in mid-summer but can and do overlap into September as well. Mull, on the other hand, is not AS impacted as Skye, which is not to say it's exempt from the same pressures, but most visitors find it less crowded, if that word can be used in the context of the Inner Hebrides.

One big advantage of Mull and Argyll is the proximity to numerous terrific sites - on the islands and mainland - in a surprisingly compact area. On Mull (also reached by ferry from Oban) there are picturesque villages like Tobermory, mountains, white sand beaches, castles (google Castle Duart) standing stones, hairy coos... as well as access to the isles of Iona and Staffa with all their history, natural wonders like Fingal's Cave, wildlife... https://goo.gl/maps/vW3DgkAVg2EvRuBW9

Then on the mainland a base in Oban provides day-trip access to the likes of Glen Coe, all the prehistoric leftovers in Kilmartin Glen (up there with Orkney in terms of importance) and Inveraray with its pompous castle. Google the places on this map just as a sample: https://goo.gl/maps/Y4wJNYndcmzmL6TJ8 (or use Undiscovered Scotland, a terrific resource - Undiscovered Scotland: Home Page )

What if, then, you moved diagonally across the country to the east slope of the Cairngorms and spend a night or two in that part of the country - the Perthshire Highlands, the Royal Deeside castle country - then ENDED the trip in Inverness? Again, google and research some of the places. (I've included personal faves, Fortingall and Glen Lyon, which can be spectacular in early September (or even better in late September into October.) Map, only showing the skeleton of a route, not the local excursions and loops - https://goo.gl/maps/MDfWewtPP9uim9Ha7

Anyway, a lot of "what ifs" and personal views, nothing binding of course. It's your trip. You're going to have a terrific time regardless, but be warned, you'll be planning a follow-up trip within hours of arriving.

tera_denten

Gardyloo - thank you so much! You've given me so much to think about. I'm got a fresh coffee, google maps, and my handy spreadsheet of notes and I'm going to go through your suggestions one by one! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond.

Jean

"Target rich" is putting it mildly! Scotland looks somewhat small on a map, but it's actually huge in terms of things to see and the travel times between points.

We don't drive more than an hour or so after an overnight flight. Signage in English does make things easier, but getting the hang of driving on the left requires attention, esp. if it's a stick-shift car.

FYI, during the QE2 reign, Balmoral wasn't open to the public in August. I assume that won't change, but you could check.

bilboburgler

just to reinforce janisj's remark, as a European, the narrow roads, occasional high stone walls, sheep on the road, hikers on the road, cyclists on the road and on the left hand side I would think driving after a pond crossing is close to criminal, others might not be so gentle ;-) Croughton not withstanding https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-61437471 I'd chill the first day and either enjoy Edinburgh or more sensibly take a train north to your first stop, sleep and rent your first car then. The airport is on the station and the train goes straight to the main station in Edinburgh.

seat61.com is the goto train guide
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ the core planning tool

tera_denten

What a difference 24 hours can make! After all your feedback and countless more hours of research below is the new and improved plan. Lots of big changes.

8/31 ORD > DUB > GLA

2 Nights Glasgow
9/1 Arrive GLA at 11:30, taxi to the city center, lunch, rest, and explore Glasgow
9/2 Glasgow Highlights

3 Nights Oban
9/3 Pick up car, drive to Oban via Loch Lomond
9/4 South of Oban Sites (Kilmartin, Inveraray, Kilchurn Castle)
9/5 North of Oban Sites (Castle Stalker, Glencoe)

3 Nights Mull (Tobermory)
9/6 Ferry Oban to Mull. Duart Castle
9/7 Iona, Staffa
9/8 Calgary, coastal road, Ulva

3 Nights Skye (Portree)
9/9 Mull to Skye (Portree) via Mallaig - Armadale Ferry
9/10 Trotternish Loop
9/11 Fairy Pools, Talisker Distillery, Neist Point, Dunvegan Castle

2 Nights Inverness
9/12 Portree to Inverness via Eileen Donan and Loch Ness
9/13 Culloden Battlefield, Clava Caverns, Inverness Highlights

2 Nights Stirling
9/14 Inverness to Stirling via Pitlochry, and other sites along A9.
9/15 Stirling Castle, Duone Castle, other Stirling highlights?

2 Nights Edinburgh
9/16 Stirling to Edinburgh with a stop in Falkirk to see the Kelpies. Other sites along the way? Or straight to Edinburgh?
9/17 Edinburgh Highlights.



9/18 EDI > DUB > ORD



Better? Still very open to more feedback so I can get this right.

Thank you!

RobGoss

Good itinerary - you'll have a fantastic time.

Would definitely only do 1 night in Stirling - it is so close to Edinburgh and you could easily have fullish day there and drive to Edinburgh in time for dinner. Or detour via Queensferry and have dinner at one of the pubs there.

Not clear your route between Skye and Inverness. Applecross peninsula is beautiful, but you could get up to Ullapool before you head to Inverness. Assume you've already decided against driving the long way via John o'Groats - the top end is beautiful if you have time.

janisj

Looks very doable. You can take the Tobermory > Kilchoan drive-up ferry and cut across to Loch Sunart and north to Mallaig.

The only quibbles I'd have are I wouldn't stay IN Inverness nor IN Stirling. Anywhere within 10 or 15 miles of Inverness would be convenient Nairn, Culloden, the Black Isle, or even a bit farther like Grantown-on-Spey.

And for the Stirling area I'd stay in Doune, or Callander or Lake of Menteith or maybe Aberfoyle. Like one of these: https://www.romancamphotel.co.uk or https://karmagroup.com/find-destinat...e-of-menteith/

Inverness is really mostly the busy commercial hub of the highlands and isn't that great to actually stay in, drive through. And Stirling Castle is a must but staying outside the city itself would be easier with a car.

janisj

Didn't see RobGoss' post. I definitely would stay 2 nights in the Stirling area. Lots to see/do. And you really don't have the time for Applecross/Ullapool and farther north.

Gardyloo

I certainly like this better than the previous plan, but a couple of things...

Don't underestimate the time needed to move around on both Mull and Skye. Many (most) roads are single-track and you'll be wanting to make frequent stops. The idea of going from Tobermory to Mallaig via the Kilchoan ferry is a good one. Map, if interested - https://goo.gl/maps/v4EpVQ4AwiK1pr6y8

I'd also give some consideration to taking a more easterly route from the Inverness area down to Stirling, via the Spey whisky country and the Aberdeenshire castle country. (I confess I'm not much of a fan of the A9 corridor, so there's that.) If you spent one or both of the Inverness nights in, say, Nairn (still easily accessible for your visiting targets) then the southbound trip could look something like this: https://goo.gl/maps/4sPAeeotcph47CW56

You could even spend one of the "Stirling" nights in, say, Braemar, and with an early-ish start still have basically a full day to explore Stirling and parts nearby, without much of a time penalty for your arrival in Edinburgh. My feeling is that the beautiful countryside in Aberdeenshire would more than justify the detour. Your call, of course, but maybe worth some googling.

tera_denten

Thanks, everyone! You've already helped so so so much. I do still really want to see the Outer Hebrides / Western Isles, but I think we will save that (along with the NC500 and Orkneys) for a trip with just my husband at a later date.

Would love some input on how to arrange our time on Mull as it does seem somewhat difficult/time intensive to move around. Does this plan make sense?

Day 1 - Ferry from Oban, then drive to Fionnphort, ferry to Iona. Spend a couple of hours there? Then drive to Tobermory. It does look like a long day (4 hrs+ of driving, plus ferries, plus time on Iona), but I can’t figure out a more efficient spot to put this. Also, is Duart Castle a quick stop or a longer detour? Any thoughts?

Day 2 - Staffa & Treshnish Isles Wildlife Tour (from Tobermory). Back in Tobermory ~4:30 pm. This is the tour I am looking at... https://www.staffatours.com/tours/st...wildlife-tour/

Day 3 - Calgary / Coast Road Scenic Loop (looks like about 2-3 hrs of driving plus stops), then relax in Tobermory, walk to the lighthouse, etc.


Gardyloo - I am going to do some more research on the easterly route, but didn’t get a chance to today. I really appreciate the ideas! I’m sure I’ll have more questions once I learn more.

janisj

I would stay in Fionnphort on Mull myself.

Oban > Duart > Fionnphort > Iona > Fionnphort > Tobermory is much too much for one day. It would be a minimum of 5 hours car time plus maybe an hour at Duart and at least 2 or 3 hours on Iona. You can also visit Staffa from Fionnphort.

If it was me - I'd stay 2 nights in Fionnphort and 1 night in Tobermory, or vice versa. This would make the Oban/Iona day sooooo much easier. Then when moving from Fionnphort to Tobermory take the coast road/8035. Its difficult to conveniently visit all of he island from one base because of the single tracks/distances. When visiting Mull (3X) -- I stayed in a B&B in Fionnphort once and a nearby cottage once, and one visit I split my nights between Fionnphort and Tobermory.