ANA fares.
Sep 3rd, 2022, 11:12 AM
#2
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It's been that way for ages...back to at least the 90's, when I regularly flew SJC or SFO to Japan.
Even back then flights to Japan were very high, but connecting on those same flights through Japan to an onward destination are much cheaper.
Yes, crazy.
Even back then flights to Japan were very high, but connecting on those same flights through Japan to an onward destination are much cheaper.
Yes, crazy.
Sep 3rd, 2022, 12:40 PM
#3
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Thank you for that bit of information.
I recall that in 2015 I think we flew to NRT from ORD on Air Canada biz class with a connection in Toronto. We had a cruise out of Yokohama. The fare was close to $7500.00 for both of us which included full trip insurance thru my TA. She got the fare from a consolidator BTW. IME it unusual for consolidators to beat airline rates but it happened in this case.
In 2018 I was looking for biz ORD-PEK for Sept. and what I saw then on UA, AA and AC were all the the 8.4 k range for us but to my astonishment one day UA dropped the fare to 5.2 k for both of so we booked. AA had a similar drop but a few days after booking the fares were up in the 8k range again for 2.
Yes, crazy.
I recall that in 2015 I think we flew to NRT from ORD on Air Canada biz class with a connection in Toronto. We had a cruise out of Yokohama. The fare was close to $7500.00 for both of us which included full trip insurance thru my TA. She got the fare from a consolidator BTW. IME it unusual for consolidators to beat airline rates but it happened in this case.
In 2018 I was looking for biz ORD-PEK for Sept. and what I saw then on UA, AA and AC were all the the 8.4 k range for us but to my astonishment one day UA dropped the fare to 5.2 k for both of so we booked. AA had a similar drop but a few days after booking the fares were up in the 8k range again for 2.
Yes, crazy.
Sep 4th, 2022, 09:37 AM
#4
What's your actual itinerary? Is it just to Singapore and back, or are you going other places?
Alliance prices for nonstop TPAC business class in February seem to be pretty high (they're seldom cheap) although Philippine Airlines is undercutting the majors by a lot, provided you don't mind changing planes in Manila. Never flown them so can't comment on service.
I noticed that in February you can knock almost a grand off that total by flying on Finnair to Singapore via Helsinki (from LAX.) Longer in the air, but money's money. Finnair's a quality airline and Helsinki airport is terrific.
Alliance prices for nonstop TPAC business class in February seem to be pretty high (they're seldom cheap) although Philippine Airlines is undercutting the majors by a lot, provided you don't mind changing planes in Manila. Never flown them so can't comment on service.
I noticed that in February you can knock almost a grand off that total by flying on Finnair to Singapore via Helsinki (from LAX.) Longer in the air, but money's money. Finnair's a quality airline and Helsinki airport is terrific.
Sep 4th, 2022, 11:27 AM
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What's your actual itinerary? Is it just to Singapore and back, or are you going other places?
Alliance prices for nonstop TPAC business class in February seem to be pretty high (they're seldom cheap) although Philippine Airlines is undercutting the majors by a lot, provided you don't mind changing planes in Manila. Never flown them so can't comment on service.
I noticed that in February you can knock almost a grand off that total by flying on Finnair to Singapore via Helsinki (from LAX.) Longer in the air, but money's money. Finnair's a quality airline and Helsinki airport is terrific.
Alliance prices for nonstop TPAC business class in February seem to be pretty high (they're seldom cheap) although Philippine Airlines is undercutting the majors by a lot, provided you don't mind changing planes in Manila. Never flown them so can't comment on service.
I noticed that in February you can knock almost a grand off that total by flying on Finnair to Singapore via Helsinki (from LAX.) Longer in the air, but money's money. Finnair's a quality airline and Helsinki airport is terrific.
I thought about PAL but saw some reviews and was not too thrilled. The onboard service seems quite good but overall not up to standards by other Asian carriers like ANA, JAL, Cathay, etc. You get what you pay for.
The eventual destination is Singapore. I thought spending sometime in SFO first (we are in Chicago) would be nice though I did see a biz fare from ORD on JAL for around $5300.00 which seems pretty good.
I have no problem with Finnair but the $4k fare from LAX is quite long with long layovers in HEL.
Right now the JAL from ORD seems pretty good.
Now to try to figure out why its more than double the price on ANA SFO-NRT vs. SFO-SIN in another matter.
Thanks again.
Sep 4th, 2022, 02:44 PM
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Sep 4th, 2022, 04:06 PM
#8
That Finnair itin really is slog. ORD to LGA then 4.5 hr to get to JFK-HEL then 11 hr in HEL and still a 13 hr flight to SIN.
FWIW, I did have fabulous flights on OZ, But that was in F and several years ago. All of the Asiana staff were great.
FWIW, I did have fabulous flights on OZ, But that was in F and several years ago. All of the Asiana staff were great.
Sep 5th, 2022, 06:54 AM
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I looked at biz SFO-NRT on JAL and it was nearly to the penny as on ANA.
Sep 5th, 2022, 08:37 AM
#11
Okay, so cue my broken record again...
Beside SE Asia, where else do you think you'd like to travel in 2023? Imagine this.
In February you gut it out and fly one way to Oslo, Norway. If you have any frequent flyer miles, you could use them, otherwise a coach seat will cost around $300 one way. You can probably find a flight with enough empty seats that you can raise the armrest and spread into the middle seat for more room. In Oslo you spend a night then the next day take the first flight using the Oneworld business class round-the-world (RTW) ticket you bought from American Airlines sometime between now and February, and for which you paid around $5500.
I know, you're asking, "Why in hell would I want to go to Norway in February?"
Well, with no disrespect to Norway, which is a winter wonderland but not the first place that comes to mind as a waypoint to Singapore, it's because these RTW tickets are priced very differently depending on where the trip starts and ends. The base price (before taxes and fees) for a 3-continent (Europe, Asia, North America) Oneworld business class RTW ticket bought in Norway at the moment is around $5300. The same ticket starting in the US has a base price of $10,426, roughly double the cost of starting in Norway. It's even cheaper (around $4900) if you started and ended in Japan but getting to Japan in the first place is not as cheap as getting to Norway in the winter.
Anyway, from Oslo, you fly either to Doha in Qatar or to Helsinki, where you connect to a flight to Singapore (Qatar Airlines or Finnair respectively.) Or, if you want to include some other SE Asia destination before Singapore, maybe you stop in Kuala Lumpur, or Bangkok, maybe both. After Singapore, you fly to Tokyo (Japan Airlines) and stop over again, or just connect through to Chicago (JAL or American.)
Here's where the benefit of the RTW ticket kicks in. It's good for a year and includes up to six flights within North America (which includes Central America and the Caribbean.) So maybe after you've recovered from your Asia trip you decide to spend some time next summer on the west coast, or maybe Alaska. Fly up to Anchorage (nonstop on Alaska Airlines, now a Oneworld member) in first class, then maybe back to Chicago via Seattle or San Francisco. Or maybe you want a spring or autumn visit to New England, or to the Caribbean, or maybe Costa Rica. No problem, and if you want to change the plan midstream, the cost of doing so is $125, far less than the cost of changing ordinary tickets.
Then next winter, before the 12 months of the ticket life ends, head back over the Atlantic to Europe, maybe someplace warm. Andalusia? Israel? Or maybe you cross the pond earlier and hit the Edinburgh festival in August or Oktoberfest in Germany, whatever. You end up back in Norway, then come home using some of the (many thousands) of frequent flyer miles (and elite status) you'll have gained through the RTW trip. Or buy another one, this time to include Africa, or Australia, or maybe South America.
So while the ticket price of $5K or $6K sounds high, when you figure it's good for 16 business- or first-class flights over a year, it turns the average flight into something costing $375. Decent for Chicago to LA in first class, pretty amazing for Tokyo to Chicago, or Chicago to Rome in business class.
I'm not trying to confuse things, but thought this little "what if" exercise might be worth considering.
Beside SE Asia, where else do you think you'd like to travel in 2023? Imagine this.
In February you gut it out and fly one way to Oslo, Norway. If you have any frequent flyer miles, you could use them, otherwise a coach seat will cost around $300 one way. You can probably find a flight with enough empty seats that you can raise the armrest and spread into the middle seat for more room. In Oslo you spend a night then the next day take the first flight using the Oneworld business class round-the-world (RTW) ticket you bought from American Airlines sometime between now and February, and for which you paid around $5500.
I know, you're asking, "Why in hell would I want to go to Norway in February?"
Well, with no disrespect to Norway, which is a winter wonderland but not the first place that comes to mind as a waypoint to Singapore, it's because these RTW tickets are priced very differently depending on where the trip starts and ends. The base price (before taxes and fees) for a 3-continent (Europe, Asia, North America) Oneworld business class RTW ticket bought in Norway at the moment is around $5300. The same ticket starting in the US has a base price of $10,426, roughly double the cost of starting in Norway. It's even cheaper (around $4900) if you started and ended in Japan but getting to Japan in the first place is not as cheap as getting to Norway in the winter.
Anyway, from Oslo, you fly either to Doha in Qatar or to Helsinki, where you connect to a flight to Singapore (Qatar Airlines or Finnair respectively.) Or, if you want to include some other SE Asia destination before Singapore, maybe you stop in Kuala Lumpur, or Bangkok, maybe both. After Singapore, you fly to Tokyo (Japan Airlines) and stop over again, or just connect through to Chicago (JAL or American.)
Here's where the benefit of the RTW ticket kicks in. It's good for a year and includes up to six flights within North America (which includes Central America and the Caribbean.) So maybe after you've recovered from your Asia trip you decide to spend some time next summer on the west coast, or maybe Alaska. Fly up to Anchorage (nonstop on Alaska Airlines, now a Oneworld member) in first class, then maybe back to Chicago via Seattle or San Francisco. Or maybe you want a spring or autumn visit to New England, or to the Caribbean, or maybe Costa Rica. No problem, and if you want to change the plan midstream, the cost of doing so is $125, far less than the cost of changing ordinary tickets.
Then next winter, before the 12 months of the ticket life ends, head back over the Atlantic to Europe, maybe someplace warm. Andalusia? Israel? Or maybe you cross the pond earlier and hit the Edinburgh festival in August or Oktoberfest in Germany, whatever. You end up back in Norway, then come home using some of the (many thousands) of frequent flyer miles (and elite status) you'll have gained through the RTW trip. Or buy another one, this time to include Africa, or Australia, or maybe South America.
So while the ticket price of $5K or $6K sounds high, when you figure it's good for 16 business- or first-class flights over a year, it turns the average flight into something costing $375. Decent for Chicago to LA in first class, pretty amazing for Tokyo to Chicago, or Chicago to Rome in business class.
I'm not trying to confuse things, but thought this little "what if" exercise might be worth considering.
Sep 5th, 2022, 10:07 AM
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Okay, so cue my broken record again...
Beside SE Asia, where else do you think you'd like to travel in 2023? Imagine this.
In February you gut it out and fly one way to Oslo, Norway. If you have any frequent flyer miles, you could use them, otherwise a coach seat will cost around $300 one way. You can probably find a flight with enough empty seats that you can raise the armrest and spread into the middle seat for more room. In Oslo you spend a night then the next day take the first flight using the Oneworld business class round-the-world (RTW) ticket you bought from American Airlines sometime between now and February, and for which you paid around $5500.
I know, you're asking, "Why in hell would I want to go to Norway in February?"
Well, with no disrespect to Norway, which is a winter wonderland but not the first place that comes to mind as a waypoint to Singapore, it's because these RTW tickets are priced very differently depending on where the trip starts and ends. The base price (before taxes and fees) for a 3-continent (Europe, Asia, North America) Oneworld business class RTW ticket bought in Norway at the moment is around $5300. The same ticket starting in the US has a base price of $10,426, roughly double the cost of starting in Norway. It's even cheaper (around $4900) if you started and ended in Japan but getting to Japan in the first place is not as cheap as getting to Norway in the winter.
Anyway, from Oslo, you fly either to Doha in Qatar or to Helsinki, where you connect to a flight to Singapore (Qatar Airlines or Finnair respectively.) Or, if you want to include some other SE Asia destination before Singapore, maybe you stop in Kuala Lumpur, or Bangkok, maybe both. After Singapore, you fly to Tokyo (Japan Airlines) and stop over again, or just connect through to Chicago (JAL or American.)
Here's where the benefit of the RTW ticket kicks in. It's good for a year and includes up to six flights within North America (which includes Central America and the Caribbean.) So maybe after you've recovered from your Asia trip you decide to spend some time next summer on the west coast, or maybe Alaska. Fly up to Anchorage (nonstop on Alaska Airlines, now a Oneworld member) in first class, then maybe back to Chicago via Seattle or San Francisco. Or maybe you want a spring or autumn visit to New England, or to the Caribbean, or maybe Costa Rica. No problem, and if you want to change the plan midstream, the cost of doing so is $125, far less than the cost of changing ordinary tickets.
Then next winter, before the 12 months of the ticket life ends, head back over the Atlantic to Europe, maybe someplace warm. Andalusia? Israel? Or maybe you cross the pond earlier and hit the Edinburgh festival in August or Oktoberfest in Germany, whatever. You end up back in Norway, then come home using some of the (many thousands) of frequent flyer miles (and elite status) you'll have gained through the RTW trip. Or buy another one, this time to include Africa, or Australia, or maybe South America.
So while the ticket price of $5K or $6K sounds high, when you figure it's good for 16 business- or first-class flights over a year, it turns the average flight into something costing $375. Decent for Chicago to LA in first class, pretty amazing for Tokyo to Chicago, or Chicago to Rome in business class.
I'm not trying to confuse things, but thought this little "what if" exercise might be worth considering.
Beside SE Asia, where else do you think you'd like to travel in 2023? Imagine this.
In February you gut it out and fly one way to Oslo, Norway. If you have any frequent flyer miles, you could use them, otherwise a coach seat will cost around $300 one way. You can probably find a flight with enough empty seats that you can raise the armrest and spread into the middle seat for more room. In Oslo you spend a night then the next day take the first flight using the Oneworld business class round-the-world (RTW) ticket you bought from American Airlines sometime between now and February, and for which you paid around $5500.
I know, you're asking, "Why in hell would I want to go to Norway in February?"
Well, with no disrespect to Norway, which is a winter wonderland but not the first place that comes to mind as a waypoint to Singapore, it's because these RTW tickets are priced very differently depending on where the trip starts and ends. The base price (before taxes and fees) for a 3-continent (Europe, Asia, North America) Oneworld business class RTW ticket bought in Norway at the moment is around $5300. The same ticket starting in the US has a base price of $10,426, roughly double the cost of starting in Norway. It's even cheaper (around $4900) if you started and ended in Japan but getting to Japan in the first place is not as cheap as getting to Norway in the winter.
Anyway, from Oslo, you fly either to Doha in Qatar or to Helsinki, where you connect to a flight to Singapore (Qatar Airlines or Finnair respectively.) Or, if you want to include some other SE Asia destination before Singapore, maybe you stop in Kuala Lumpur, or Bangkok, maybe both. After Singapore, you fly to Tokyo (Japan Airlines) and stop over again, or just connect through to Chicago (JAL or American.)
Here's where the benefit of the RTW ticket kicks in. It's good for a year and includes up to six flights within North America (which includes Central America and the Caribbean.) So maybe after you've recovered from your Asia trip you decide to spend some time next summer on the west coast, or maybe Alaska. Fly up to Anchorage (nonstop on Alaska Airlines, now a Oneworld member) in first class, then maybe back to Chicago via Seattle or San Francisco. Or maybe you want a spring or autumn visit to New England, or to the Caribbean, or maybe Costa Rica. No problem, and if you want to change the plan midstream, the cost of doing so is $125, far less than the cost of changing ordinary tickets.
Then next winter, before the 12 months of the ticket life ends, head back over the Atlantic to Europe, maybe someplace warm. Andalusia? Israel? Or maybe you cross the pond earlier and hit the Edinburgh festival in August or Oktoberfest in Germany, whatever. You end up back in Norway, then come home using some of the (many thousands) of frequent flyer miles (and elite status) you'll have gained through the RTW trip. Or buy another one, this time to include Africa, or Australia, or maybe South America.
So while the ticket price of $5K or $6K sounds high, when you figure it's good for 16 business- or first-class flights over a year, it turns the average flight into something costing $375. Decent for Chicago to LA in first class, pretty amazing for Tokyo to Chicago, or Chicago to Rome in business class.
I'm not trying to confuse things, but thought this little "what if" exercise might be worth considering.
Does UA have something similar?
Great info. This adds a huge dimension to this discussion
Sep 5th, 2022, 12:36 PM
#13
Was just looking at LAX-TYO one-way fares. United basic economy is $399 nonstop. Tomorrow and the rest of Sept. In February it is the same price on UA and DL and AA. In Feb from ORD the lowest price is over $1000. DL premium economy is probably the best deal. Several Feb dates on UA in C for 70K miles, but connections mostly, for now.
Sep 5th, 2022, 02:18 PM
#14
The Oneworld RTW fares are based on how many continents are touched in the course of the trip, from a minimum of 3 to a maximum of six. (Australia and the south Pacific are counted as a continent.) The Star Alliance RTW fares (so United, Lufthansa, Singapore, ANA, Air Canada et al) are based on the total miles flown, from a minimum of 26,000 to a maximum of 39,000, with tiers at 26K, 29K, 34K and 39K. You can use a tool like the Great Circle Mapper -http://www.gcmap.com - to compute the distances. Regardless of the distance tier, all RTWs (both Star and Oneworld, as well as a similar product offered by Skyteam airlines like Delta, KLM et al) max out at 16 segments, including so-called "surface" segments, which is a universal limitation imposed by e-ticketing.
In general, the Star product is less flexible and more expensive than the Oneworld one, mile for mile. In the case of an itinerary similar to the one I imagined above, the cheapest Star Alliance ticket would cost around $1000 more, and the cheapest start/end point (at least that I could discover in a relatively brief search) would be either Japan or Hungary. With an abbreviated destination list, however, (see below) a start in Budapest would be very close to the Norway cost at present. In February a one-way coach fare to Budapest from Chicago is around $250, or again, you could use miles if you have them.
However, one big advantage of the Star product is that it doesn't matter which continents you touch in the course of the trip, so if, for example, you started in Budapest and wanted to visit Cape Town on your way to Singapore, then maybe Hokkaido on the way back to the US, then the next year stop in, say, Italy on the way back to Budapest, you could fit both into the 29,000-mile limit, like on this map - https://tinyurl.com/star1budcpt
Or, if you wanted to skip Japan on the way back to the US and substitute Australia and New Zealand, then add stops in both Israel and Italy on the way back, equally okay, like this: https://tinyurl.com/star1budsyd
Lots to absorb, I know, but like you say, worth every penny and every aspirin.
In general, the Star product is less flexible and more expensive than the Oneworld one, mile for mile. In the case of an itinerary similar to the one I imagined above, the cheapest Star Alliance ticket would cost around $1000 more, and the cheapest start/end point (at least that I could discover in a relatively brief search) would be either Japan or Hungary. With an abbreviated destination list, however, (see below) a start in Budapest would be very close to the Norway cost at present. In February a one-way coach fare to Budapest from Chicago is around $250, or again, you could use miles if you have them.
However, one big advantage of the Star product is that it doesn't matter which continents you touch in the course of the trip, so if, for example, you started in Budapest and wanted to visit Cape Town on your way to Singapore, then maybe Hokkaido on the way back to the US, then the next year stop in, say, Italy on the way back to Budapest, you could fit both into the 29,000-mile limit, like on this map - https://tinyurl.com/star1budcpt
Or, if you wanted to skip Japan on the way back to the US and substitute Australia and New Zealand, then add stops in both Israel and Italy on the way back, equally okay, like this: https://tinyurl.com/star1budsyd
Lots to absorb, I know, but like you say, worth every penny and every aspirin.
Last edited by Gardyloo; Sep 5th, 2022 at 02:39 PM.
Sep 5th, 2022, 03:03 PM
#15
I should mention that if you wanted to reverse the order of things, you could go over to Europe some time this fall, start the ticket, then return home to Chicago until it's time to head over the Pacific. Just do the segments in the opposite order and direction.
Sep 6th, 2022, 07:24 AM
#16
The fact that Hungary was currently the cheapest place I found for Star Alliance business class RTWs to start/end made me look up the Oneworld prices ex-Budapest, and what do you know, they're now cheaper than Norway, and very close to Japan prices. While the OP could use a 3-continent Oneworld Explorer ticket for the current trip (base price today ex-Budapest is US$5037) a four-continent ticket (my preference) is $5514. A four-continent route could include a number of stops in Australasia as well as enough segments to allow for considerable travel within North America. Remember, unlike the Star product, the Oneworld RTW has no mileage limit. Something like this would be totally doable. https://tinyurl.com/owbudakl
This includes stops in Sydney, Cairns (for the Great Barrier Reef) and Melbourne, plus Auckland, then also a separate trip to the west coast and Alaska before returning to Budapest via Madrid, Tel Aviv and London. Totally imaginary, of course, but completely doable given the product's rules.
This includes stops in Sydney, Cairns (for the Great Barrier Reef) and Melbourne, plus Auckland, then also a separate trip to the west coast and Alaska before returning to Budapest via Madrid, Tel Aviv and London. Totally imaginary, of course, but completely doable given the product's rules.
Sep 9th, 2022, 06:39 AM
#19
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Sep 9th, 2022, 08:04 AM
#20
Just FYI, if you wanted to pursue the RTW plan from Budapest, there are business class award seats available on both Turkish and LOT Polish flights from Chicago to Istanbul and Warsaw respectively, connecting through to Budapest, on numerous days in early February next year. If you have United miles, this could make "positioning" fairly easy. I also noticed that United is having a sale on frequent flyer miles, offering major discounts, through most of September. So if you needed to buy more miles to get enough for the "award" tickets, it might be worth investigating.
