willtravelnow

Folks - we are a family of 4 including 2 toddlers and an elderly. Our travel style is traveling during shoulder season to avoid big crowds. We like open-air natural beauty or if it' a city, find a cute neighborhood cafe and people watch, leisurely stroll in a park, eat at some select restaurants that locals flock to (love seafood), check out outdoor farmers/flea markets and pick up good produce for home-cooked meals, open-air music and festivals and of course mix in a little bit of play areas for kids which are often found in parks or indoor places. We like authentic vs trendy and don't care at all about big shopping meccas except bringing back some spices, etc from markets local flock to

We are planning a 2-week trip and these are interesting destinations to us but open to adding others - Guanajuato, San Miguel, Patzcuaro, Tepoztlan. The main thing for consideration right now is deciding on two bases and picking out accommodation. Our flight may land late into Mexico city so we will have to be overnight there or could also use it as a base for a few days if that's what you suggest. Although I know car rentals are discouraged, we may choose to get one as bus fares can add up for 5 people and perhaps we could use a car rental for transport within cities but also use a couple of Uber's in congested areas with little parking. I've driven in many Asian countries so used to chaos on the roads but don't want your response focused just on car rentals

Thanks

baldone

Some random thoughts.
If you stick to your tentative itinerary, I'd suggest basing yourself in San Miguel and Pátzcuaro (or Morelia) and do day trips to surrounding areas/towns. You could visit Guanajuato via the highway that goes by Dolores Hidalgo and on through the mountains; quite scenic. As you wind your way into town, there is a parking lot near centro.
If you do rent a car, it would certainly make day trips or half day trips much easier and allow you to go places where public transportation is somewhat cumbersome. Here's a trip report I did on day trips from San Miguel:
San Miguel De Allende day trips
The downside of basing yourself in CDMX with a car is not so much the chaotic traffic, but time wasted getting in and out of the city on travel days.
If you base in Patzcuaro, you could easily visit the towns of Santa Clara Del Cobre, Uruapan, Quiroga and Morelia. Morelia has bad traffic too, but it's a beautiful city.
I wonder if as you continue with your planning if Tepoztlan may turn out to be too far out of the way. If you do go, try to avoid the weekends as the town gets packed with visitors from Mexico City.
Another itinerary that might allow you to include Tepoztlan is Puebla and then on to Veracruz. I've included part of that route here:
Queretaro/Teotihuaca/Puebla/Oaxaca/Orizaba/Xalapa road tripa
Lots of options, and i think your plan of renting a car is a good one.

willtravelnow

I heard that Guanajuato is a bigger city than san miguel and there is more to do and was wondering if choosing it as a base woud make more sense given it's equi-distant to some places you mentioned as san miguel is. So maybe guaajuato and patzcuaro as bases?

willtravelnow

I may have to redo my plans after discovering both san miguel and guanajuato are quite hilly and we have a senior with us that can walk flat 3 miles flat ground daily but hilly will become problematic especially with what I'm seeing on youtube videos. With this being said, what bases would you recommend?

Thanks

baldone

More random thoughts.
Guanajuato & San Miguel (the cities proper) pretty much have the same populations according to the 2020 census; San Miguel some 72,000 & Guanajuato some 70,000. Gto's municipio (County) is pushing 200,000, while SMA's is like 175,000.
I tend to disagree that gto is equidistant to as many day trip options as sma. But I guess that depends on what your interests are and where you'd like to visit. I don't know if you've had the opportunity to glance at my trip report. And I didn't include Atotonilco, Dolores Hidalgo or Queretaro, which are all much closer to SMA than to gto. Atotonilco has a historic church, the Santuario de Atotonilco, (a UNESCO World Heritage site), plus a beautiful outdoor restaurant, Mama Mia's Campestre with a kids play area. Dolores might be fun too for the young'uns with all the ice cream vendors around the Plaza. That said, near gto are a couple of minor ruins near (about an hour and a half) Penjamo plus Guanajuato's only tequila distillary, Corralejo. León is always a good place to shop for leather goods, which is closer to Guanajuato than to San Miguel. I like León's untouristed centro a lot. Querétaro has the urban argueological site of El Pueblito, and the largest historic center in Mexico outside of Mexico City.
You had mentioned play areas for kids. Parque Juárez in sma has that; I've not seen such in any of Gto's pleasant plazas. There may be, just don't recall seeing. There are also 3 hot springs just outside of sma near Atotonilco. Taboada hot spring has a water park feature for kids. No hot springs near gto.
May is the low season, so festivals and such probably won't be happening. But you'll find better adult oriented live music in sma, since gto is more college age oriented. There is however a weekend outdoor concert venue near sma called Zandunga featuring world class guitarist Gil Gutierrez, its proprietor.
Parking, if you rent a car, while a challenge in both cities, will be easier in sma.
Driving, if you rent a car, will be more difficult in gto, even with a GPS due to the tunnels.
It is true that sma tilts toward 'trendy' especially in the immediate area around the jardin. But a 5-10 minute stroll takes you into 'authentic' neighborhoods. Gto is a university town, so it has that vibe.
Restaurants. Sma has far better options. In gto, the outdoor restaurants on Obregón are good for people watching, but the food is only average. Likewise the restaurants on Jardin Union. My experience is that 'local' walkable neighborhoods are probably more easily accessed in sma.
Museums. Guanajuato's are better, sma essentially only has Ignacio Allende's home. Plus a mask museum that may or may not be interesting to kids.
SMA has the Botanical Gardens, a brief taxi ride from centro. Nice views of the city, and it is mostly flat but no shade on its trails.
Regarding your last post on the walkability of both cities, the immediate centro zones of both are generally pretty walkable. In Guanajuato, the temptation is to explore some steep alley to see where it goes which may turn out to be nothing but a dead end. Guanajuato has a funicular (cable car) that takes you up the hill to the Pipila Mirador for great views of the city. San Miguel recently converted a couple of streets to pedestrian only around the jardin. I think San Miguel's streets are probably more walkable, overall, especially if you want to venture out into a colonia. Guadalupe is nice and flat and has a few cafe's and nice produce at frutería Gil. In both cities it's fairly easy to avoid steep inclines. In both cities I thinks a bigger concern for the elderly are irregularities on the sidewalks and having to step off and on the sidewalk to navigate other pedestrians. Keep in mind that San Miguel has its share of elderly retirees that manage to get around just fine.
Queretaro's centro is very flat, so that might be an option. But traffic can be heavy if you venture out of the city. But it's close to the Sierra Gorda for some awesome scenery plus a bit cooler. Tequisquiapan & Bernal are easy day trips too, as would be San Miguel. Queretaro, as a big city and at 5,000 feet will be hotter than sma or gto.
Apologies for the long-winded response.

willtravelnow

I think I'll take your recommendation in that case - San Miguel & Patzcuaro it is for my 2 bases. I found your link for the trip report too so may come back with more questions. I don't know why you call these random thoughts because you've traveled quite a bit and are so knowledgeable - thank you for helping a fellow traveler !

willtravelnow

We typically do airbnb since it's 5 total and we cook a lot so hotels will be impractical and too expensive. San Miguel seems quite pricey on airbnb - what do you think of renting something 20 mins out of the city and then just drive in? My guess is parking within san miguel should not be more than $1-2 USD/hour which is fine and still saves us a lot of money

Thx

zebec

Yo WTN, great advice above. Will add a bit more here.

If based in Patzcuaro:
-possible family picnic site at the lil beach by Chupicuaro (nearby historic church plus black pottery in neighbourong Sta Fe de la Laguna)
-possible massage by Stephen Ritter del Castillo in wooden-mask town Tocuaro
-SU market in Erongaricuaro (choice rustic restaurants on outskirts towards Arocutin)
-*Mansion Iturbe was a fun place to stay; one of the finest 'communal public rooms' ever, located upstairs and fantastic for quiet reading, sketching, photography, unwinding etc

Hope all goes well.
I am done. the end

baldone

I don't think that's a bad idea at all. In fact, we live in a condo development about 15-20 minutes from centro. Gated communities, pretty much all have pools and many have playground equipment. Safe, flat secure walking anytime of the day or evening. Quiet, no fireworks, lol. Next to a golf course with a decent little restaurant. Just off the highway towards Queretaro. I don't know your budget, but there are many air bnb units out here owned by people from Mexico City and Queretaro. Here's just one example:
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/51533256
If you go to Google maps and find Zirandaro, you can zoom in and see others. About 7 minutes from us off the highway to Rodriguez, there are 3 nice restaurants set in a lovely 18th century hacienda, Al Rojo Vivo, Aragonés Bistro Mexicano & D'Andrea Italiano. Rojo has great burgers, steaks & Margaritas. Other areas to search that are 15-20 minutes out of town are Los Frailes, El Milagro. The former is a colonia of primarily single family residences, the latter condos/townhouses.
This is another example out here, and there are other vacation properties on her page:
https://revicrealty.com.mx/property/...ta-casalvento/
And you're correct in that parking is typically 25-30 mxn per hour.

baldone

Will, I don't know if you're still following this thread. You had mentioned that you like fresh seafood, you like to cook at home, and that maybe you'd look for an air bnb 15-20 minutes outside of San Miguel. Anyway, this seafood vendor (in the attached link) recently opened a location within walking distance from Zirandaro where we live. Miguel speaks excellent English, as does Abraham the chef in the small restaurant on site. We grilled some red snapper from him tonight. Firm and un-fishy. Fwiw.
As a PS there are some 60 air properties in Zirandaro. Just enter Zirandaro in the search bar.
Hook, line and sinker. The best fishing spot in San Miguel. - Don Day in SMA

willtravelnow

Beautiful link - will certainly use this. It's amazing these guys are getting so much fresh fish flown in. Is it roughly 500 pesos per kilo on an average for most fish?

baldone

That article is like 3 years old, so prices have gone up a bit. And price will vary depending on the fish, season & supply & demand. At least as far as Miguel's concerned. I just bought about 1/2 kilo of red snapper from him for 300. La Comer, a local supermarket, has red snapper & robalo for a similar price, 619 kilo. And mero for 511/k. But their stuff is most likely pre-frozen.

willtravelnow

is this all farm raised or wild caught fish you are referring to?

baldone

I will message Miguel tomorrow and ask about his fish. Otherwise, I'm really not sure.
Speaking of fish, if you like trout, it's pretty popular in Uruapan. There's a nice little restaurant above the park. Likely farm raised.

crellston

We chose not to rent a car and travelled around by bus for a few months. Its as the right decision for us as we were just two and found it pretty easy.

Here is a link to our blog which covers some of the places we visited https://accidentalnomads.com/category/mexico/. We loved Guanjuato but it was insanely busy and crowded. In pac we loved just about everywhere we went. Patzcuaro was amazing but Morelia had its attractions too. Guadalajara and San Miguel were , upon reflection our least favourite places - nothing inherently wrong with them, just not for us. Oaxaca was amazing and a greta base for exploring further. Loved Mexico City and also nearby Puebla .

Anyway, just a few random thoughts - making me want to plan return!

baldone

He said that except for trout & salmon, all the fresh fish he sells are wild caught on the Pacific Coast or in the gulf. Most shrimp he saifvis farm-raised except the larger, jumbo sizes.

willtravelnow

thanks so much; so glad you are on this thread!

Michael

Most of the sites in Guanajuato and San Miguel Allende are on fairly flat territory. I do not recall step hills in San Miguel, but there Guanajuato is in a canyon and an overview of the city necessitates climbing. We stayed in Guanajuato and visited San Miguel on a day trip by bus.

https://flic.kr/p/7o3hpk https://flic.kr/p/7o7ey3 https://flic.kr/p/7o7eJW https://flic.kr/p/7o3kCM