maitaitom

I must be getting old, because I am confused about when is the best time to purchase train tickets from London's King Cross to York in May. I have been looking at The Man In Seat 61's website, and it looks like I should use either www.tfwrail.wales or www.thetrainline.com. We are looking to purchase four 1st class tickets, and I am wondering when is the best time to get a better price? I thought it would be 90 days ahead when they go on sale, but according to "The Man" (he should copyright that name), cheaper Advance tickets go on sale at another time. Before senility sets in even further, could someone tell me the best way (and when) to purchase those tickets for mid-May? Now back to practicing driving on the other side of the road, which can be dangerous in California. Cheers!

thursdaysd

I buy through https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/

If Mark says to wait, wait.

Why first class? Also, how many train trips? I have bought a senior rail card my last two trips, which got me a 30% discount, but I took enough train tides to make it worthwhile. There's also a Family and Friends and a Two Together rail card: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times...Railcards.aspx They all seem to cost the same 30 GBP, so Family and Friends would be really good deal for four of you.

maitaitom

This is the only train trip.

janisj

If you want 1st class, and this is the only rail trip, instead of senior railcards, buy 'Two Together' cards https://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk. They cost £30 and give 33% of two tickets (each person would need a senior railcard, whereas with the 'two together' plan, you'd only need one card for each couple)

What day of the week are you traveling? I like 1st class for the catering/beverages but AFAIK they don't do the hot meals on Sundays and maybe not on Saturdays either)

thursdaysd

With four of them they should buy Family and Friends cards and split the same 30 GBP four ways.

https://www.familyandfriends-railcar.../the-benefits/

sofarsogood

To pile in with another link –

The train company is https://www.lner.co.uk/ and Advance tickets are on sale up to 27 May.

You get the option to choose specific seats if you book with them.

Groups of 3-9 qualify for a 20% discount if you don’t want the faff of buying an additional railcard.

The nationalrail link will direct you to LNER.

You could buy from tfw.wales but you won’t get the seat choice option.

The trainline is a re-seller which will add an additional booking fee

janisj

Ooh - that's even a better deal that the Two Together.

A bit of math required to determine which is better, a 33% discount using family & friends card or the 20% discount sofarsogood mentions

maitaitom

Thanks for the above info, yet I am still confused (what else is new). Sorry for all the following questions. On LNER it shows that the 9:06 a.m. train on May 18 from King's Cross to York will be a total of £196.80 for four people in first class (only six tickets left). The cost for the earlier trains, which we would rather take are £294.40. Does that sound correct? Will those prices go down? How does the Family and Friends work toward the tickets? Thanks again.

janisj

Makes total sense. Fares are very time-specific. The trains after 09:30 AM might cost even less due to peak travel times.

(I haven't checked your specific date/times and 09:30 is often the start of cheaper fares but it might be 09:00 on the York trains)

thursdaysd

The saver cards only work after the morning rush hour in London and the south east, so the York trains may or may not be affected since they start in London.

You should try the pricing with and without the Friends and Family card (there is an option for that on the National Rail site, don't know about any others) then add 30 GBP to the former. You can buy the FF card when you arrive in the UK, but you can pay for the tickets as if you already had it. (These days you may be able to buy it online ahead of time, I haven't tried that.)

Think of UK trains like planes.

Interesting that you are seeing prices for May 18th, that date isn't active yet on the National Rail site. I think you are starting this exercise too early, you are more than 90 days out.

sofarsogood

The prices are correct and will only go up once the tickets at the current price point have sold out. Earlier trains are targeted at business folks going to Newcastle and Edinburgh.

It's only two hours to York - first class is nice but it's overpriced for what you get. You'd be better off spending the money on something else and buying standard tickets.

janisj

. . . and definitely look at train times after 9:00 or 9:30. In the case of trains, traveling early is not a great idea. If you have a choice, travel later in the morning -- heck, you'll be on holiday, sleep in a bit why dontcha . . .

maitaitom

"sleep in a bit why dontcha . . ."

I'm not going to let my traveling companions see that quote Janis.

Below is where I have my confusion is about pricing.

From The Man In Seat 61's website: "Tip: If you see no fares under £121 and you're looking 8-12 weeks ahead, wait!"

Also from his website:

• Don't fall into the trap! There are several weeks at the extremity of the booking horizon when expensive Anytime & Off-Peak fares go on sale but before cheap Advance fares go on sale. This 'trap' catches out many overseas visitors to the UK, desperate to book train trips months ahead. To see how far ahead booking for major operators is currently open, see www.thetrainline.com/ticketalert.
  
• Anytime & Off-Peak fares go on sale 12 weeks out, even if reservations have not yet opened, because these fares can be sold without a seat reservation. They have a fixed price & unlimited availability, they cannot sell out. There's no advantage in buying these in advance.
  
• Advance fares are much cheaper, but can only go on sale when reservations open, usually 8 to 10 weeks out (it varies) because availability at each price level is controlled by the reservation system. To secure a cheap price, you need to buy these Advance fares in advance.
  

thursdaysd

Why is that confusing? Seems pretty straight forward to me - you are looking too soon.

"There's no advantage in buying these in advance." - applies to Anytime and Off-Peak fares.

"To secure a cheap price, you need to buy these Advance fares in advance." - applies to Advance fares BUT NOT until 8-10 weeks out. You are not yet 10 weeks out. Wait. Worry about something else.

sofarsogood

You're not looking too soon.

Advance tickets for your travel date are now on sale from LNER regardless of what The Man in Seat 61 says.

LNER states Advance tickets are available https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-inform...-future-dates/

A first-class Anytime ticket for London to York is £226 per person. A first-class Off-Peak ticket for London to York is £164 per person. They are the tickets where there is no saving in buying early. Three months ahead or on the day -same price.

Compare that with the Advance ticket prices you found for four people.

thursdaysd

On the National Rail site (I find the LNER site confusing) first class Advance for four for March 18 starts at 170 GBP, for an early train, but for April 18 it's 224 GBP for the same train.

maitaitom

I ended up buying four first class tickets from LNER for May 18 for $67 US apiece (£196.80 total). While I'm sure if I kept perusing train schedules for the next 30 days I could get a better price, I'm happy just to get this done and not worry about it. Thankfully, the four of us can afford spending a little more money (I'll buy two less martinis in London). Plus, I'll probably drink 67 bucks worth of coffee on the trip. Thanks to you all for helping.