Yovi

My wife and I are going to NYC for 11 days in mid Jan 2020. We have a few meetings scheduled but most of the time we are free to travel in and/or out of the city. This is our third visit to NYC in January and we realize that it is cold, rainy/snowy, windy. Thus we explore the city in a slow pace. Easy easy.
We feel that 11 days in NYC might be to much and would ask your ideas as of where to and how to travel. We are not skiing and are not experienced in snow/ice driving. If we travel out of the city we will probably use trains. We may combine one or two day trips with one longer trip of 2-3 nights. Our main goal is to enjoy beautiful view covered with snow.

J62

The chances of finding anywhere within 100 miles of NYC covered with natural snow in mid Jan is very hit or miss. Unless you time it right after a recent storm then don't bet on it.

You will find snow on the ski slopes in the Catskills - eg Hunter Mountain. That's the closest. Most of the snow will be machine made and limited to the ski areas.
Vermont - nearly everywhere, especially the mountains themselves if not the valleys.
Adirondack Mountains (eg Lake Placid)

Chances are higher for natural snow the farther north you go. Even Albany (2.5hrs north of NYC) is hit or miss with snow on the ground in mid Jan. North of that the chances increase.

As for driving, I agree that if you are not experienced driving in snow it's best to stay off the roads. The reality though is that unless you are driving DURING an actual snow storm (= more than an inch or 2 total accumulation) all roads will be cleared very soon after the snow stops. Except for extreme snow events (> 1-2"/hr snow for several hours duration) interstate highways remain open and passable, perhaps at slower speed. Other state and county roads are generally also passable during a snow (ex when extreme), but can be icy in spots and best to avoid if you're not experienced. Local roads - usually the last to get plowed, and don't have the benefit of traffic to help melt the snow. We live in snow country, and we'll drive locally up to a mile or 2 in snow if absolutely necessary (4WD with snow tires), but generally find it's better just to wait it out and give the crews a chance to do their good work.

Yovi

Thanks J62, now I have a much better understanding of what to expect. Lake Placid is too far for a short visit with no car, so are Stowe and Burlington VT. I see that optional destination within 4-5 hours direct train ride may be Boston for a quite different city and Saratoga Springs which is about 180 north to NYC and may have better chance of being covered with natural snow. Both are towns with public transportations, good hotels and a collection of restaurants and direct train service from NYC.
From NYC we may go for a day trip by train to the Hudson valley. There are a couple of villages that we can use the train/commuter to get to.

J62

Yes, Saratoga Springs will have a greater chance of snow on the ground, but even there it can be hit or miss in mid January. Most years there is at least some snow on the ground around Christmas.

Numerous good hotels right in town and excellent restaurants as well.

There is only one train a day from NYC to Saratoga, so bus (trailsways.com) with 3 or 4 direct buses daily may be a better option. The train/bus station is a mile outside of town but an easy taxi or Uber ride.

If you decide on Saratoga be sure to post back here in January and I can answer any questions you have.

nylilly

The train from NYC to Albany is incredibly scenic with views of the Hudson River and Catskills. Along the route, you’ll find Rhinebeck and Hudson, two pretty little towns with shops, boutique hotels and restaurants. I live in Albany which probably makes me biased, but I think you could easily spend a couple of days here without getting bored.

Yovi

Thank you J62 and nylilly,

The package of Rhinebeck, Hudson, Albany and Saratoga Springs looks interesting. We still have to decide where to stay and what day trips to make. If we stay in the "big" towns (Albany, Saratoga) we can rent a car if weather is not too stormy and make some easy day trips.

Usually, we plan well ahead and make early bookings. I assume that for January I can wait for (almost) the last moment to book trains, hotels and maybe a car. Is it so?

silvialilly8427

I think you'd be fine to book a car with little notice. If you arrive by train, the station is actually across the river from Albany, but there are both Lyft and Uber service available. Do NOT take a cab. They're gross and pack vehicles with multiple riders going to different destinations. I'd suggest a hotel downtown - both the Morgan State House and (new) Argus are lovely and border Washington Park. There are also a Hilton and a Hampton Inn downtown as well. Avoid Wolf Road and the chains there - it isn't remotely walkable. In addition to Saratoga, the Berkshires of MA and Bennington, VT are quite close and have terrific art (MASS MOCA, Grandma Moses, Norman Rockwell, etc) and dining.

Be aware that Amtrak fares may increase as your dates draw closer. They price according to availability and as the trains fill, the prices go up.

J62

Train to Albany (numerous trains each day) and renting a car at the Amtrak station would make for a good/flexible plan. The car rental at the ALB train station may close at 5pm so keep that in mind.
Since there is only the 1 train / day that continues past Albany to Saratoga would give you many more options. You could stay in Albany (not my recommendation...) or stay in Saratoga (which sounds more of what you are looking for...).

tom42

Your mention of taxis in Albany brought back some memories. Such a strange system and yes, the taxis were kind of gross. I haven't taken one in a number of years and am a little surprised that they would still operate in the same way. I lived in Albany for almost six years in the late 90s to early 2000s - in an apartment building right next to the Morgan State House. Agree with you about Wolf Road and the chains (both hotels and restaurants). If I was coming in to Albany for a visit, I would want to stay downtown.

Yovi

Thanks again for your great help. I now have a first draft plan: NYC(2Nights), Boston(3N), Saratoga Springs(3N), NYC(3N). The most problematic leg is Boston to Saratoga. The train has a connection in NYC and that makes about 9 hours ride, which is too much for one day. A long distance car service may be very convenient (door to door in less that 4 hours, we can leave early and arrive by midday) but might cost a fortune (over $700).
If stay in Saratoga, we would prefer to stay in a hotel with hot tab. I found one, Homewood Suites By Hilton Saratoga Springs- near Saratoga Spa State Park. The hotels has a shuttle to/from downtown and gets very good reviews. Any more options?

J62

From Boston to Saratoga is 3hrs by car, but you are correct, there is no direct train service.
You could take a bus from Boston to Albany (Trailways.com), then proceed from there to Saratoga by rental car. The bus arrives in Albany bus station which is under the freeway by the river. There is a local Hertz office in Albany (open weekdays only, until 5). - it's a bit far to walk. There is also an Enterprise rent-a-car at the TU center arena that is closer - maybe a 5min walk (uphill) from the bus station. It also closes at 5pm. They may come pick you up at the bus station - not sure if they still do that.

As for hotel in Saratoga Springs, I do not recommend staying at the Homewood Suites. The hotel itself is fine, but you really want something directly in town that you can walk to. You can't walk anywhere from the Homewood Suites, not even across the highway to the state park.

Hilton,Hampton Inn, Holiday Inn, and Embassy Suites are chain hotels right in town, all good locations for walkingin town.
There are several smaller, boutique hotels also right in town. Pavillion Grand, Saratoga Arms, The Adelphi, Spa City Motor lodge, & The Inn @ Saratoga.

For a hot tub, I recommend you experience a mineral bath at the Roosevelt Baths - those are historic baths in the Spa Park that opened about 90years ago, and use the mineral springs that the town is famous for.
The Roosevelt baths is open to the public. Spa/bath rooms are private, one person rooms with a large, very deep tub. Filled with a mix of mineral water (which is cold) and hot tap water, to any temperature you want. A 40min bath session costs something like $40. Local residents get a discount. It is also a full service spa where you can get a massage. The spa/bath rooms all have a massage table in them.

If you changed the order of your trip. Start in Boston, then NYC, then SS, then back to NYC to end the trip you'd have more transportation options as noted above. (trains to/from Albany).

nylilly

A couple of quick thoughts -

Personally, I like the Hilton Garden Inn, which very close to to Saratoga Park and has a hot tub. I enjoy cross country skiing and trail running in the park. I believe they may offer ski rentals in the park, if that’s something you’re interested in. It’s a beautiful way to spend a couple of hours in January, if there’s snow. Follow it up with a soak in the baths and a nice dinner at 15 Church or Chianti and that’s a good day.

I’ve driven to Pittsfield, MA (less than an hour east from Albany) and taken the train to Boston from there. You avoid the NYC detour, but the train still takes longer than driving because they yield the track to cargo trains. Maybe Uber to Pittsfield? It would be significantly less than Ubering to Boston.

Avoid the bus station in Albany. It’s hideous.

Hotels near the park are wonderful if you’re active. It’s easy to grab a Lyft or cab into Saratoga Springs where it’s walkable. It can’t be more than two miles, if that.

Yovi

The more I plan the more I realize how limited we are because of the "no car" restriction.
We will allocate 3 nights to Boston for sure. The main dilemma is: going to Saratoga Springs for 3 nights or staying all the rest of the nights (8N) in NYC and make one or two day trips to some nice village.
If we stay 8 nights in NYC we will split it between lower Manhattan (probably SOHO) and upper (somewhere between Penn station and the central park). When in the upper, it is very easy to take a train for a day trip without carrying all our luggage. will decide later.
Thank you friends, with your help we can now decide much better.

J62

Sounds like a good plan. If there is snow in the area then your options for day trips to experience it greatly expand. There are two train stations in NYC. One is Penn Station which serves Amtrak/long distance trains. The other is Grand Central, which serves the local commuter trains (MetroNorth RR) that serves the Hudson Valley up to Poughkeepsie (Hudson River Line), another line that serves the eastern part of Westchester County (Harlem river line), and one that serves towns in Connecticut, all the way to New Haven. The MetroNorth opens up a lot more options for small towns by day trip. No advance purchase is required. There are also trains to the east on Long Island that start at Penn Station, and maybe now also Grand Central.

Given the extensive subway network in NYC I don't think you need to move hotels while staying there. It's not that far by subway to Central park area even from SoHo, but it's also ok to move around once. We like to stay in the Flatiron district which is about halfway between midtown and SoHo, but we go to the City to just enjoy being there and aren't interested in the major tourists sites since we've been there so often.

Yovi

We also come to the big city quite often, last time Oct 2021 after a beautiful foliage trip to upstate NY and Vermont, so we are "exempt from" the duty to visit the tourist attractions. We walk a lot (over 12 miles a day) and take some coffee-food-beer-shops breaks. We spend almost all our visit south to the 14th so SoHo is usually our base. This time, because it is winter, we prefer to split our stay to two. While in the upper zones, we will be closer to the train staions.
I will post when arrive or just a 1-2 days before asking for more specific help.
Thanks, keep safe

isabel

I think flexibility is going to the most important thing given when you are going. January in NYC could have totally bare ground, "old" snow (more than a day and it starts to look terrible) or fresh snow - but that would mean getting lucky and being there when it actually snows. Slightly better chances of snowscapes in and around Boston. Also around Albany but I think Boston is a much more interesting /beautiful city than Albany so I think your plan to go there is good. You would find it enjoyable even if there was no snow (or it was "old" snow). I think your best bet to see a "winter wonderland" in New England/Hudson Valley would be if you got a snow storm and then could rent a car the following day. Since Amtrak gets expensive or even sold out if not done in advance perhaps you could take Metro North somewhere and find a car rental there with only one day advance notice. You don't need any advance notice to take Metro North and it goes as far as New Haven. You don't want to drive IN a snowstorm, but you also don't want to wait more than a day or two (depending on how much snow) in order to see fresh snow. Snow gets dirty fast. So I would not make any "out of the city" advance plans, watch the forecasts and if you get some snow enjoy NYC covered in fresh snow while it's happening, then the following day take Metro North and rent a car. Except for ski areas you should be able to get motels with no/or one day advance reservations.

Yovi

I can see that the less flexible part is the Amtrak tickets. Flexibility costs. In order to book train tickets we have to decide when exactly and for how long we're going to Boston. 3 nights or 4? I tend to say 4 as everything is much slower in January and we cover less places per day. We also may take a day trip from Boston using the commuter train. From my experience, when it comes to hotels, last moment booking is a quite solid bet.