rexb

Back here after years of absence (though I did ask a question about Taipei hotels in 2018). I was for a very long time insanely active here on the Europe forum (even putting together a Fodorites trip to Italy in 2011)

Once upon a time, there were some active threads on RTW trips (specifically, best country or countries to choose for the start/stop - - but also pros and cons of SkyTeam versus OneWorld versus StarAlliance).

I got the tip here from someone named Gardyloo (maybe from Vancouver?) about doing a start/stop in Japan and that strategy worked great for us in 2018. We made more or less RTW trips for less than the price of one.

Thinking to do a different trip in 2020 and pricing craziness (all figures cited below are for business class) is changed quite a bit from what I recall in 2017/2018. Japan-to-Japan now costs quite a bit more (roughly $1000 more - - perhaps more taxes than actual airfare increases?) - - but still a better deal than US-to-US at about $7500. The comparisons are substantially different as US-to-US is almost $2000 cheaper (now under $11,000 is possible; I think that what we looked into was more like $13,000 two years ago).

And Greece-to-Greece is actually slightly cheaper than Japan-to-Japan at about $7300 - - not to mention that for much of the US it is quite cheap to get to Greece (EWR => ATH on Emirates with affordable upgrades from economy to business if you have Membership Rewards.

Any other suggestions where the best discussion of this might be nowadays (or anytime in the last year or so)?

Thanks in advance,

Rex, in Indiana (rexb)

Gardyloo

THE Rex in Indiana?! Wow, welcome back stranger.

I don't think Oneworld has raised the ex-Japan prices in Yen; however the Yen - Dollar exchange is quite different now.

As of today, the cheapest places (in USD) to start and end a Oneworld Explorer business class 4-continent ticket (DONE4) are Pakistan (yeah, good luck with that) followed by Norway, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Japan, South Africa, Jordan and Israel. Base price ex-Oslo is around $1200 cheaper than the Euro zone (and around $1100 cheaper than the UK, where the slide of Sterling has "cheapened" USD-denominated fares big time.) And with Norwegian Air offering cheap service over the pond, getting there is quite easy.

Of course, as before, taxes and airline fees can make a big difference, so, again, as before, having a planned itinerary is an important first step. What are you thinking?

Consider subscribing to Expert Flyer - https://www.expertflyer.com/main.do - where you can pull up base fares and have access to all sorts of useful tools.

rexb

Gardyloo:

Wow... do I really deserve the title "THE Rex from Indiana"? Who besides me and you would have any clue WHY!!?? Shall I dust off a link to the old (2007) post about the woman whose mother was in the hospital in Meaux (France)?

============================================

It's interesting that the base price "pecking" (pricing) order appears to be a bit different for SkyTeam than for OneWorld.

I did not try Norway (and I don't think that I am very interested in Norwegian Air - - though your mentioning it did prompt to read the review on TPG of their Premium Class experience) but I did try Sri Lanka, Jordan and of course, Japan. Greece was slightly cheaper than Japan, then Sri Lanka, then Jordan.

Greece is likely to stay fairly high on our desired list of destinations… and the prospect of using it as start/stop means getting to go there twice.

Where to go, eastbound from Greece is a bit of a challenge. I started with Beirut, then Cairo, then Jeddah, then Delhi. My wife was pretty surprised. "Beirut?" she asked.. "since when are you interested in Lebanon?" she wanted to know.

And she had concerns about the potential for unrest(and likewise Cairo). My answer was that you can simply never tell.

Our 2018 itinerary contained these five, all in a row... St Petersburg, then Moscow, then Shanghai, then Hong Kong, then Taiwan. Any of the five of those COULD turn uncomfortable for Americans, but I really did not even think that there was any real risk.Who could have imagined what is happening in Hong Kong now?

Has there been anything like that in Beirut in the past decade? I guess the greatest instability is the (still) massive number of (Syrian and Palestinian) refugees residing in Lebanon.

I have to say that getting from Europe/the Mediterranean to far east Asia is the most challenging part of planning an RTW itinerary for me - - chiefly because I know so little.

Going from Russia straight to China generally took away my hand-wringing for our 2018 trip.

I will try to make good on sharing with you some more details of our 2018 "Round-and-two halfs"-the-World adventure(s).

Best wishes,

Rex

janisj

Your old profile is still there so you wouldn't have any limitations like you do with this 'new you' -- AS LONG as you remember your old log in.

Gardyloo

It gets a bit technical, but starting a Oneworld itinerary in Europe/Middle East has some disadvantages if that's a focus region for your travels. Oneworld's RTW rules limit you to four flights maximum, and two stopovers maximum, within the continent of origin. In Oneworld's nomenclature, "Europe" includes the Middle East and most of north Africa, so if, for example, you wanted to start in Athens and then travel to someplace like Cairo, using Oneworld carriers you'd have to fly there via someplace that's a Oneworld hub, namely London, Amman or Doha (Qatar). So there's two of your flights used up, and one stopover, to travel to a destination that you can fly directly to from Athens for €136 and two hours. At roughly $6500 for a business class ticket that's good for 16 flights in the pointy end, that works out to $406 per segment, or $812 just to get someplace you could fly directly to (outside the ticket) for 1/5th the price. Same goes for Beirut, Amman, or Tel Aviv. At least from Amman or Tel Aviv you'd have nonstop access to Asia (Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, or Hong Kong from AMM, Hong Kong via Cathay Pacific nonstop from Tel Aviv.) And don't forget, you'd have to end up back in Greece at the end, probably requiring one final Europe segment, like London - Athens.

As for access to Norway, of course you don't have to fly on Norwegian. Do you have any frequent flyer miles stored up? Or you could buy enough miles (AA has frequent sales) to cover business-class "positioning" flights, that could be to Athens, Oslo, Stockholm... wherever, which would all be a short, cheap "non-RTW" flight from various other destinations where you could hopscotch around.

People have different tolerance levels for travel to so-called "tense" or "unsafe" areas. I don't think I'd go on holiday to Kabul at the present, but I wouldn't hesitate to go (back) to Iran, for example. And in numerous visits I've never felt a minute of insecurity in Israel, including brief times on the West Bank. But it's personal of course, and you need to think circumstantially - probably not the best time to visit the Amazon rain forest, for example. Or Gaza City.

Planning is half the fun - let us know your thinking.

tracilee

rexb

Smiling to see your reply, gardyloo... and to be remembered by someone (thanks tracilee)

Not sure where I will go with this in the coming week or two. But I would be very happy to hear from anyone who has been looking into RTW (Skyteam) fare differences attributable to starting one country versus another - - especially if there is a "magic spot" in the broad realm between Greece and the far east (Asia).

Thanks in advance for anyone else who wants to chime in on this.!!

Best,

Rex

Gardyloo

Like Star Alliance, Skyteam's RTW products are based on mileage tiers while the Oneworld Explorer is based on continents touched. As of today, the cheapest business class origin country for Skyteam's lowest mileage tier, the IRTWSKY4 (26,000 flown miles max) is Japan, by a difference of $470 over the second cheapest, Sweden. For the next two tiers (SKY3, 29,000 miles AND SKY2, 33,000) Sweden is the cheapest, with Japan returning as the cheapest for the SKY1 tier (38,000 miles.) I checked fares from Greece, through the Middle East, and into both Southeast and East Asia, and the Skyteam fares are almost universally $2000 - $4000 more per person for comparable mileage tiers. I didn't find any "sweet spots" at all. A separate issue with Skyteam is that their coverage in some areas, particularly Australia/NZ and South America, can mean having to use their main hubs, like Seoul or Shanghai or Buenos Aires, for intra-regional travel, which rapidly consumes the flight mileage limits, forcing a higher mileage tier and fare. So route construction becomes much more important than with the other alliances in those regions.

sapphireb

Hope this still active on the DONE tickets. I have spoken with Gardyloo many a time in the past but on other forums regarding DONE and AONE tickets, had 17 but stopped for quite some time...... I was one of the ones making the most of the ex-maritius AONE's and JNB DONE's tickets back in the day....

So back in the game! Can start for anywhere, no doubt one in each direction and hopping between them again - where in the world are the best origin points these days for DONE and AONE?- probably 4 continents....

I am currently in Asia but that doesn't really matter!

Cant seam to find an up to date forum anywhere concerning RTW, especially Oneworld as used to know the rules backwards and probably haven't changed that much. Suggestions?

Thanks in advance, S

sapphireb

if that helps jog your memory Gardyloo or Global Gypsy on some...., I don't know, hung up my travel boots for too long! I am now on flyer talk as sapphireb until I can find my old name and find all the old RTW buddies.

S

Gardyloo

The most up to date information on Oneworld RTWs is still the Oneworld board on Flyertalk - https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld-411/

There have been some fairly significant changes in base RTW fares (dollar denominated) due to currency fluctuations, such as the Euro reaching parity with the USD, etc. As of now, the cheapest base fares (in USD) for DONE4 RTWs are for trips originating in Japan (US$5689) and Norway ($5697.) I haven't looked at first class (AONEx) fares; they're becoming less valuable as first-class offerings have diminished worldwide. From those two start points (Japan and Norway) AONE4 fares are from $3000 to $4500 more expensive than their business class counterparts, IMO not worth it given how few international first-class offerings there are these days.

Of course, as before, those are BASE fares; the final out-of-pocket cost will be higher, sometimes a lot higher, depending on the choices of routes and carriers made during ticketing. Things like British Airways (and other carriers') surcharges, UK Air Passenger Duty, and other fees and taxes levied by the various countries or airports included in one's itinerary - they all add up, and can add as much as 25% - 30% to the total. But starting in Norway or Japan (or even Canada) can offer significant savings over US-originating trips. The same ticket that costs $5700 in Japan or Norway has a sticker price of $11,071 if you start in the US (US$8312 from Canada, worth the drive over the border.) Remember too that there are some additional restrictions regarding routing and stopovers in the continent of origin that might make a difference. Here are the current rules: https://tinyurl.com/OWEXP0722

Oneworld has also changed, some for the better, some for the worse. S7 Airlines (Russia) has been dropped from the alliance for obvious reasons, but also LATAM left Oneworld, crippling OW's coverage in South America. On the other hand, Royal Air Maroc has joined, as has (a huge win IMO) Alaska Airlines. Oman Air will be joining soon. So that might make a difference in route planning.

Hope this helps.

sapphireb

Great quick reply, thanks so much! Much appreciated.

Is it still the case that an AA issued ticket still works out cheaper than on other Oneworld airlines?

I am GBP based so will look at exchange rates.

S

sapphireb

I only ever went first ex-MRU on a few RTW's because they forgot to update A ONE and it was about the same as business for a spell! - marvellous deal. Business luxurious enough for me and done a lot of economy in last few years when not on RTW flights (awful after so many years of business!) so really looking forward to this ticket.

Have to say though I went Singapore recently economy, very impressive and was only 2 short flight HKT-SIN-DPS for the record. oh and Finnair Business LON-HEL-BKK was not good at all (albeit undercutting Business massively rather than going direct LON-BKK).

S

Gardyloo

Sorry I missed this question earlier.

Short answer: It's hard to say. For a time AA was reluctant (or just wouldn't) pass through some of British Airways' fees (in particular their so-called "fuel surcharges" - which a US court struck down only for BA to rename them "carrier-imposed fees.") But that ended when BA and AA signed their joint marketing agreement, so whatever advantage that might have made for AA ticketing for RTW products seems to have gone away. '

Another factor is the degrading of AA's RTW desk, which used to be the gold standard for ticketing. It's still there, but some of the best agents have moved on, leaving major gaps in competence or responsiveness. I would still use them for a new booking, but only if you're planning to use AA metal for at least one transoceanic flight; otherwise they're apparently begging off.

What I'd probably do is try to get a booking made using the online booking tool at Oneworld.com, which sadly has never been a useful method - buggy from the start and still very much so. However, if you can get a skeleton itinerary priced and booked using the tool, the $125 needed to expand and flesh out the itinerary using a human might be well worth it. It still only costs US$125 for ticket changes, plus any new taxes, of course, but that would allow you to have a dialogue with, say, the AA RTW desk or their BA counterparts, which might help in eliminating errors or give you some assistance in avoiding additional fees, things like that. Hope that makes sense.

I never got on the MRU bandwagon - too many other things going on with my life, but I used AA's GSA in Cape Town for a number of RTW bookings. Good people in the Mother City.

Good luck!