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Advice needed for family trip to Belgium and Germany

Advice needed for family trip to Belgium and Germany

Old Sep 30th, 2017, 09:47 PM
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Advice needed for family trip to Belgium and Germany

Hi All,

We are planning our vacation to Belgium and Germany in April-May 2018.

We will be having 15-20 days.

We are a family of 4 - 2 adults and 2 children of 16 and 15 years. We will be using public transport everywhere.

We enjoy castles and palaces, farmer's markets but not too much of museums - maybe only the must sees.
We love trying local cuisine.

We are looking at arriving in Brussels - spend 4 nights and then 3 nights in Bruge or Ghent.
We would like to do a day trip to Amsterdam to see the Keukenhof Gardens. Any other recommendations for day trips. Is Luxembourg city worth doing as a day trip from Brussels.

Ideally we would like to spend more time in Germany. .From Brussels, we want to go to Hamburg or be based in Bremen or Lubeck for 3 nights. Would like to visit Lubeck as a day trip if not overnight.
Any advice and suggestions please? Is this worth it or should we give it a skip or be based in a more charming place which has good connectivity.

Then we plan to go to Berlin or Dresden for 4 nights. Should we do Berlin or Dresden? Not been to these places.

We need to go to Eschwege for 2 nights to meet our relatives and then 3 nights in Munich or Garmisch before we fly out of Munich. Should we add / drop any place?

Have been earlier to Munich but not to the other places.

Please let me have your valuable suggestions - for local grocery stores, bakeries chains, metzgeries.
Where to stay and what day trips we can club together. Tips for travelling cheap.

We do not want anything too fancy. Any hotel recommendation that is convenientl located, clean and safe near the Hauptbahnhof in each place?

Kind regards,
SKPKCP10
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 12:52 AM
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Just a few thoughts

1) lots of bike paths in Belgium and bike rental, if you ignor the Ardennes (a bit hilly) that might be of interest
2) Delft would win over Bruges for me. But a day in Bruges is fine.
3) Hamburg is not cheap, if you do decide to visit here you'll find cheaper places along the Elbe river going East from Hamburg.
4) Lubeck is fine and would be my choice out of those three, Luxembourg is ok. You might like the Mosel river for castles, bike rides and good public transport. Really pretty and lots of local foods and wines ot taste (a far fewer museums).
5) Berlin/Dresden. Very different places Berlin is far far bigger, Dresden has a very focused centre with loads of museums

Cheap travel, well often a towns accom is cheaper on the outskirts of a town and a tram ride saves you money if you go to such places. Shopping malls tend to be hidden inside the street scene more than say US. Breakfasts in these places can be very good value. German hotels tend (tend) to charge for wifi. If this is a cost then choose the free ones.

I'd avoid chains (in so many ways), you want locally produced food etc, so use the local stores.

If you do the Dresden stay we stayed on the steam ship on the river, dead cheap nice breakfast (plus also local bakeries). Not sure where the station is in Dresden but the whole place is small.
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 01:11 AM
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Generally eat what the locals do to keep prices down, however you will note that veggie food is always cheaper than meat/fish, that beer in beer areas is cheaper while wine in wine areas is cheaper and that Internationalbrands are more expensive than local brands. Ethnic food is normally cheapest of all.
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 03:19 AM
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I have not been to all the destinations you mentioned.

I really enjoyed Munich and the Bavaria area, and so I would encourage you to see if you could do 3 days in Munich and 3 days in Bavaria instead of either. Salzburg is only 1h30min direct train from Munich and I though it was a charming small city! You could add it to your itinerary easily.

In Belgium, Brussels was not a hit with me; so I would probably cut it out of itinerary or reduce the amounts of nights. But it depends on what you want to see. I love Bruges.
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 03:32 AM
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Stay in apartments. Find apartments at town websites - usually www.TOWN NAME.de ( if this doesn't work, the wikipedia enty usually lists it )
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 04:07 AM
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"We would like to do a day trip to Amsterdam to see the Keukenhof Gardens."

Keukenhof is very impressive but it is not in Amsterdam and getting to the park will require some careful planning. Do you hope to visit both in 1 day? Not such a good plan, methinks. Just getting to A'dam and back will require a lot of time on the train.

This page may be helpful. It indicates there's a direct bus from Leiden railway station.

http://tulipsinholland.com/faq-tulip...-to-keukenhof/


"We are looking at arriving in Brussels - spend 4 nights and then 3 nights in Bruge or Ghent... Any advice and suggestions please? Is this worth it or should we give it a skip or be based in a more charming place which has good connectivity."

If you wish to keep just two bases for these 7 nights, then consider instead a base in Ghent (with day trips to Bruges and Brussels) and a second base in Leiden or perhaps in Delft, indeed a lovely place. From Delft you'd be 1 hour from A'dam, 20 min. from Leiden (+ bus ride to Keukenhof.) Brussels: consider seeing it on arrival day, then proceeding to your Ghent base in the evening. If you don't have time for what you wish to see on Day 1, returning on a day trip from Ghent is pretty easy.

Generally speaking, all your destinations are urban ones and probably cannot be considered "travel on the cheap." More rural places like the Mosel River, which b-b has suggested, will be easier on the budget, as a rule, as it's an area where vacation apartment rentals are in abundance. Getting around that area is cheap as well - there you'll find inexpensive day passes that cover a family in the Rhine/Mosel region for €22/day:

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets/tic...e-ticket/#c422

http://www.vrminfo.de/fileadmin/data...ennetzplan.pdf

Some innkeepers in/near Cochem offer guests free local transportation in the form of a "guest ticket" -

http://www.elfriede-fuhrmann.de/gaes...l-englisch.htm

http://www.elfriede-fuhrmann.de/gaes...l-englisch.htm

The Mosel and Rhine are dotted with castles, vineyards, old-world towns and outdoor activities.

http://www.mosel-reisefuehrer.de/17-...ights-englisch

http://www.loreley-info.com/eng/rhein-rhine/castles.php
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 04:27 AM
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Thanks for the lovely insights. Perhaps we could do day trips to Bruges and Ghent as I understand everything shuts after 6 pm in Bruges. Is Delft more bigger place with more things to do?
Do not want to keep packing & unpacking so prefer staying in one place.
Had not considered Delft so will explore that option.

We could give Hamburg and that area a skip and go directly from Brussels to Berlin as I am sure children would enjoy that place more.

Which website do I check out for train connections and fares from Brussels to points in Germany.

We do not enjoy wine but I LOVE BEER and my husband enjoys Radler.

Just love the marzipan cakes and the almond croissants and the various pork dishes. Pork in all forms is YUM!

What place do you recommend to stay in the Mosel valley? I think 3 nights there would be nice. How is the train connectivity from Brussels to this area? Had opted for Hamburg purely for ease of connectivity into Germany.

Brussels I understand is a foodies paradise with the awesome chocolates and waffles etc.

Do you have the name of the steam ship on the river in Dresden. Does it keep moving from point to point? What is the name and how do one do the booking?

No specific itinerary is planned yet so please keep giving the options.

Thanks once again and let the ideas / suggestions / recommendations keep coming.

Kind regards,
SKPKCP11
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 04:42 AM
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Well tourist centre is Cochem, I tend to stay in smaller places like Bernkastel and Kues or Traben and Trarbach.

Rails all along the Mosel.

Start with rome2rio then dig into the details using bahn.de and read seat61.com to understand European trains.

Boat stays fixed

https://www.booking.com/hotel/de/beh...s=1&#hotelTmpl
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 06:17 AM
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We are a family of 4 - 2 adults and 2 children of 16 and 15 years. We will be using public transport everywhere.>

Yes trains are fantastic - you are doing a lot of train travel -investigate the Germany-Benelux Eurailpass that lets you hop just about any train anytime in Germany, Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg. Anyway compare to indidual tickets and if close go for the pass-lots of good info on trains -www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 07:40 AM
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Thanks all for the quick reverts. I think we will only focus on Belgium (Brussels and maybe Bruges or Ghent) and then on to Germany.
Will keep Luxembourg and Amsterdam for another time.

Have been reading trip reports - any feedback on Boppard and Rudesheim.

Ideally we like mountains not flat lands.

I am seriously confused this time as I am planning a trip after nearly 3 years!

Nevertheless, please keep the info coming.

Kind regards,
SKPKCP11
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 07:47 AM
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Rudesheim is a famous wine town and has really taken up the tourist coin there. As you enter from the river the tourist shops line the road, still the walks in the vines are ok. Boppard is a little nicer, the wine is less famous but only a bit and the central town is pleasant.
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 08:01 AM
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Have been reading trip reports - any feedback on Boppard and Rudesheim>

At that time of year I would eschew nice ruralesque places like Rhine and walking thru perhaps muddy vineyards and concentrate on large cities with lots of things inside to see and do in case weather is poor.

Berlin - absolutely fascinating and need not go to any of its world-famous museums to love it.
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 02:42 PM
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You said you were after bakery chains; in Germany there are many chains (I know Ditsch in the Rhein-Main region, and there is also Kamps and Wiener Feinbäcker Heberer, which are supra-regional and found in lots of stations), but seriously in most neighbourhoods there is a bakery every couple of blocks - not necessarily part of a chain. Also at the entrances to many bigger supermarkets. The standard is good everywhere as bread - especially those bread rolls - are a staple of the diet. At stations you will often find filled bread rolls at the bakeries, perfect for grabbing before a train trip.

https://kamps.de/en/bakery
https://www.ditsch.de/en/shops/
http://www.heberer.de/de/home

In Belgium there is a chain called Panos which has great bread, excellent for a cheap lunch. Found everywhere.

http://panos.be/nl/home

I don't know of any Metzgerei chains in the same way as the bakeries in either Germany or Belgium, but of course they do exist. Metzgereien are not as salient for me as you can buy meat in most supermarkets in both countries. While some sell rolls and sausages most do not, and you can buy Bratwurst (sausages) from stalls in most pedestrian zones.

You are right that Brussels is for foodies. Belgium rides on its stomach and every small town has its culinary specialties. If you accept that the most important part of your visit will be a meal and also a visit to an estaminet for a beer and a light snack, you've got Brussels just about right. A la Mort Subite is a famous estaminet in Brussels that is very old and serves traditional light meals and numerous kinds of beer; very atmospheric. Brussels is also about waffles (Dandoy in Rue Charles Buls is a tearoom with good waffles), chocolate (the Sablon area has a lot of chocolate shops), and mussels in season (said to be any month ending in 'r'). Frites are best from a Frietkot (a van / stall); there is a good one at Place Jourdan, but good frites are everywhere.

Lavandula
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 03:04 PM
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but good frites are everywhere.>

Belgian has the best frites (frenched-fried potatoes) ever! Yes frites wagons and stands everywhere - with a mind-boggling myriad of toppings like weird to Americans curry sauce! I go for Frites Special -mayo, ketchup and diced onions.

Well frites and beer and chocolate about all I know about Belgian 'cuisine'!
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 08:03 PM
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Hi SKPKCP11,

Not sure if your plans still include going as far south as Munich or Garmisch-Partenkirchen. If so, you can catch the farmer's market in Garmisch on Friday mornings and one in Partenkirchen on Thursday mornings. If you can arrange your time to hit one of those, you may enjoy them. If not, of course, you can always spend time at the Viktualienmarkt in Munich, which is a huge open-air market selling fresh fruits & vegetables, as well as many stands with prepared foods & salads.

For cheap travel in Bavaria, you can use the Werdenfels ticket (for travel in a narrow corridor from Munich airport to Munich and onward to Weilheim, Murnau, Garmisch, and Mittenwald) or the Bavaria Ticket (for travel in all of Bavaria). Each of these works like a travel pass for the day for your entire group; the Bavaria Ticket is valid only after 9 am on workdays, but the Werdenfels Ticket has no time limits.

https://www.bayern-fahrplan.de/en/ti...Bavaria-Ticket

https://bahnland-bayern.de/de/ticket...ket-werdenfels

(the last only in German, I'm afraid, but you can translate it using google)

I also have to say that I haven't experienced what bilboburgler reports about German hotels tending to charge for wifi. I life in Garmisch, and all/most of the hotels in town offer free wifi. And when I was researching hotels for my trip through Germany in June, there were only about 2 hotels out of the about 30 that I investigated that didn't offer free wifi. I also searched for hotel rooms for my nephew and myself outside of Munich for the Oktoberfest this year, and every one I looked at offered free wifi. It might be that he looks at a different class of hotels than I do (I go for 3-star properties generally). But I would say the opposite, that German hotels do generally offer free wifi.

Anyway, have fun as you plan!

s
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 09:47 PM
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Berlin is a wonderful city
My children( in their twenties) stayed in Mitte in hackerschermarkt
Great central location near the railway station
Not far from Alexander platz
Stayed in adina apartments hotel which had a kitchenette and own washing machine and dryer
Had a double bed and another sofa bed in living room


We found Europe expensive in every way ...as Aussies we just put up with forking out
Very grateful we could take breather in Kraków which was so much cheaper
Beautiful City too

Salzburg is nice ..we still preferred Kraków


So much to see in Berlin
We concentrated on the ww2 sites..also had a great day trip to Potsdam which was beautiful (but avoid Mondays because lots of palaces closed)
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 10:07 PM
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Swan, wifi; it is getting better in the smaller ones and then if you touch the commercial/modern ones you get a shock. Plus you often seem to have to register (some nonsense about German law, which I doubt).

Certainly this year it has been much better, but I assumed that I was selecting on "free wifi" so my view is maybe distorted.

Anyway, using booking.com there is a free wifi click box.
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 10:28 PM
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Hmmm.. I use booking.com mostly but never click the box for free WiFi...

Yes, I have noticed that the more expensive hotels were charging for wifi, but that was some years ago.

s
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 11:07 PM
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Hi All,

Thanks for the lovely info.

What is the cheapest and best way to come from Brussels to any point in Germany and then make our way to a place in Mosel/Rhine or go directly to Berlin using the regional or ICE tickets as the other trains Thalys are quite expensive.

Am I seeing right or making a mistake?

I am seeing Dbahn website. Any suggestions?

What is an estaminet? Any local dishes which are a must eat and easily available on the menu? We have no restrictions.

Yes, I definitely want to come to Munich as I plan to take my flight out from Munich. So, we feel it would be nice to relax for 3 nights also in Garmisch. If not Garmisch, any other suggestion. Do not want to go to Salzburg.

Son wants to visit Nuremburg once again as there is a shop called American Gun Store which he was quite fascinated with. But, of course we are not going there.
Daughter insists on Brussels and hubby is interested in Berlin. So everyone gets a little of their stuff. My personal favourite is Garmisch. Ideally I prefer visiting areas where beer is available v/s wine.

Have read about the lambic beer in Brussels. Which brands make this beer and where is it available? Any info?

In Brussels, where should we base ourselves. Want CONVENIENCE in terms of eating, drinking and commuting.

Thanks all. Please keep sending ideas. At this stage I am open to all suggestions.

Kind regards,
SKPKCP11
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Old Oct 1st, 2017, 11:34 PM
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Swan, you may be right, but the OP needs to be aware of the possibility. Hugs to all
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