Trip Itinerary Recommendations?

Old Sep 3rd, 2022, 04:39 PM
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Trip Itinerary Recommendations?

My girlfriend and I will be traveling through Europe from Nov 30 2022 to Jan 10 2023. We are wondering if anyone has suggestions for changes to our itinerary? Are there any cities or towns that you would spend more or less time in, or cities that you think we should be seeing instead of any that are on our list?

We love Christmas markets, which is how we decided on most of the cities to begin with. We like trying new foods, seeing interesting architecture, historical sites, and seeing different cultures.

Also, any recommendations on foods we need to try, experiences in these towns, best ways to get around, or any other information would be greatly appreciated!

Attached Files
File Type: pdf
dreyerrick is offline  
Old Sep 3rd, 2022, 07:23 PM
  #2  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Since I assume you have reasons for choosing the places you have, and many are not what I would like, or the time allotted is more or less than I personally want, I can’t make specific suggestions about what you should eliminate. I can only offer general advice and questions for thought.

It does seem to me that this is more of a laundry list of places. You might consider cutting some and see more places that are close together, so doing some short day trips from some of your bases. Think about how short the days will be, how early it will be dark and the temperature. Seriously think about and plan what you really want to do each day and how long that will take when you are allotting time in each city. Places that would get question marks right off are Basel for a day, Barcelona for two separate days, plus others. It almost never makes sense to go to the same place twice.
You are going to Vienna. Why not Salzburg for a day? You are going to Bruges. Brussels has a big Christmas market. Why not Munich rather than Cologne unless that particular cathedral is the draw? It is closer to other places in Germany and Austria. Budapest and not Prague?

It is better not to stay in the same place twice, but you do need to be in the departure city the night before, so, either put all of your time in Barcelona at the end of the trip, or put it in the beginning and just fly home from Paris. In the end, that would save travel time and money.

You are doing a lot of zig zagging, wasting time and money and resources. A lot of it does not make logistical sense. You go North in Germany, then back down to central Germany, then across to Budapest, then back up North to Bruges, etc. Your trip is very convoluted. I suggest you actually get a large paper map of Europe. Lay it out and with a marker, mark out your itinerary. Look for ways to lay it out more efficiently.
Have fun with it.
Sassafrass is online now  
Old Sep 3rd, 2022, 10:25 PM
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Winter time. Cold days, darkness is much longer, Covid may put up some barriers. One other can of worms that is looming. Have you read that there is a energy crisis. Some counties are already issuing orders to cut back. This is before winter demands.
VANAARLE is offline  
Old Sep 3rd, 2022, 11:07 PM
  #4  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://wanderingwheatleys.com/best-...ts-in-germany/
beautiful pictures of major German Christmas markets.
Sassafrass is online now  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 03:46 AM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I fully expect Christmas markets to be limited this year due to the energy crisis.
I also expect many hotels and restaurants will close or have limited opening for the same reason through the winter. Some may just close altogether due to the costs and lack of staff.

The route makes no sense at all, as Sassafrass says. Have you checked there is a train on Christmas Day?
Why Fez? Barely any time in Barcelona? And why for so many days in Fez yet less than a day in so many other places?
Fly home from Paris. One less polluting flight.
hetismij2 is offline  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 06:46 AM
  #6  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dreyerrick
My girlfriend and I will be traveling through Europe from Nov 30 2022 to Jan 10 2023. We are wondering if anyone has suggestions for changes to our itinerary? Are there any cities or towns that you would spend more or less time in, or cities that you think we should be seeing instead of any that are on our list?

We love Christmas markets, which is how we decided on most of the cities to begin with. We like trying new foods, seeing interesting architecture, historical sites, and seeing different cultures.

Also, any recommendations on foods we need to try, experiences in these towns, best ways to get around, or any other information would be greatly appreciated!
Oh dear. I do not want to rehash some of what others have said but this itinerary does not seem to make sense to me.

Why are you flying in and out of Barcelona - but seemingly left NO time to actually see Barcelona? Fly open jaw/multi city meaning into one and out another (at the opposite end of your itinerary). So if you really want to have Fez as your first destination: fly to Fez! You will often find that it costs more time and money to get back to the original destination than it does to fly back out of it.

In addition to the shorter days, you're underestimating how long it takes to get to/from airport/train station (and waiting), check into your lodging, getting lost (you will get lost - even with GPS on your phone), also for travel disruptions and potentially bad weather. Plus the mundane of eating food, actually stopping to see what you came to see.

Not to mention, this is a long trip. As someone who is three weeks into a four-week trip, you may find you need to just sit and do nothing every once in a while. Your itinerary has not left any time for that.

You're flying into Milan to get to Lucerne? Why? Does Lucerne not have an airport? And does it make sense to go this route - I will let others chime in as I have been to Milan, not Lucerne.
EDIT: I see that it does not. But the train to Lucerne from Milan, IF I am not mistaken (I'm limited by slow wifi in Montenegro), is a 4 hour train ride. Yet, Zurich to Lucerne, if I am not mistaken, is only an hour by train. If you MUST fly (hope you retool this itinerary so you don't have to), fly into Zurich.

Last edited by Travel_Nerd; Sep 4th, 2022 at 07:03 AM.
Travel_Nerd is offline  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 07:37 AM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25,493
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
My question would be why Fez when they could go to Marrakech? I mean Fez is not bad but its no potato.

I dislike downloading spread sheets (why download stuff off the internet?) but I think I saw Colmar on the list. I'd stick to Strasbourg which is nicer and easier in comparison. Try and plan for a lot to do in each town/city. Some days you will just have to abandon the plan due to weather, power, traffic, lack of staff or just (on such a long holiday) lack of puff/illness. It is better to overplan and fail but have a day off every so often.

Clothing, since I would try to pack light to enjoy any holiday I find winter holidays in Europe especially difficult. This can be an issue for cold wet feet especially, nearly every country you mention have something like thrift-shops where you can buy water proof jackets or shoes. You don't have to cart everything from Fez to Berlin.
bilboburgler is offline  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 12:08 PM
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hetismij2
I fully expect Christmas markets to be limited this year due to the energy crisis.
I also expect many hotels and restaurants will close or have limited opening for the same reason through the winter. Some may just close altogether due to the costs and lack of staff.

The route makes no sense at all, as Sassafrass says. Have you checked there is a train on Christmas Day?
Why Fez? Barely any time in Barcelona? And why for so many days in Fez yet less than a day in so many other places?
Fly home from Paris. One less polluting flight.
can you confirm your thoughts will actually occur? I have never seen anything on news anywhere what may happen.I have a better plan to stop pollution. Do not take any vacations.
VANAARLE is offline  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 02:35 PM
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The person above who recommended re-ordering with a map is right. Your order makes no sense - Bruges is not far from Cologne but you go south before that to southern German, Vienna and Budapest. Realistically your trip falls into groupings - Bruges, Cologne and Paris are a little unit, Vienna and Budapest belong together. To Vienna you could add Milan. Basel, Colmar and Strasbourg make sense together. Heidelberg, Rothenburg odT and Nuremberg go well together. Fez and Barcelona are outliers. Now re-order so you do no backtracking. Maybe south to north - Fez to Milan and its group. Next Nuremberg and its group. Next Colmar and Strasbourg (maybe you lose Basel here), Cologne, Bruges and then Paris. Fly home from Paris. I think that sort of works but you might lose a couple of stops on the way. This is not a bad thing, most itineraries do better for having pruned some destinations.

Lavandula
lavandula is offline  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 02:40 PM
  #10  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For the OP,
I am going to take a stab at more specific suggestions. I can’t remember all of your trip off hand, so this is only a start and I hope others with more knowledge will continue.

First, you like Christmas markets, and they are fun, but honestly, how many? Two or three during the day for foods and things to buy and two or three evenings for lights and music may actually be quite enough before they start to seem repetitive.

Second, you are traveling a very long way. In some places, there is a lot to see and you are giving adequate time to several. Others, not so much or are neglecting important nearby places.

You have a wonderful amount of time, about 40 days, but you have about 14 days of travel, not a good ratio.

Morocco. Make this your first stop. Allow for one day to rest and relax after long flights. My advice is, unfortunately, not personal experience though I have read about and studied maps and history of Morocco for years, hoping to go. I read all the trip reports too and there are people on Fodors who go there often. Someone else suggested Marrakech. I agree, and also think, going that far, to such a unique country, you should give it more time. At minimum five to eight days. You might arrange it on your own, but here are some tour ideas. I would do eight, see and experience more of the culture
https://www.kimkim.com/c/how-to-spend-5-days-in-morocco
The weather in December is good, not hot as Summer. Not Christmas, of course, but colorful markets. With travel getting there, time there and travel on to another country, that will be about ten days.
You now have 30 days for the rest of the trip, making it easier to make choices.

Not sure best way to put it together, will have to think more about it, and get advice from others.
I would definitely cut going through Milan and Basel and the stop in Colmar. I would probably cut Cologne, Budapest and Bruges.

I would include Salzburg and Munich with Vienna, Nuremberg and Rothenburg, and probably add Prague. This is based on your interest in Christmas markets as well as travel logistics.

Others may offer a better plan, but from Morocco, I would likely fly to the most distant destination (perhaps Prague) and work back to Paris by train and fly home from Paris. This is so you get the Christmas markets in before the end of the trip. I might go directly to Germany or Austria, then Prague, fly to Paris, then home. Need more research on available travel. After you work out these stops, you might be able to include one more place as long it was in between, not adding additional travel time.

Why did you include Barcelona? I like Barcelona for the architecture, so not knocking your including it, just trying to get a handle on other things that are important to you.

There is a fast train from Barcelona to Paris if you wanted to do it that way, train to Germany and fly home from Germany or Austria at the end.

Sassafrass is online now  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 04:52 PM
  #11  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I see others like Lavendula, who knows Germany well, posted while I was still typing earlier, so their advice is current and relevant, especially grouping places. You have a lot of options and possibilities. Think carefully about those few places that are “must see” for you personally. Then choose the grouping that works best with those, realizing you must cut others.
Sassafrass is online now  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 06:00 PM
  #12  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Month Long Winter European Vacation

We are planning a month long vacation through Europe in December, and due to previous feedback we received from this forum (THANK YOU!), we are replanning our itinerary and are looking for advice! My girlfriend and I will be flying from the US around Nov 30, and need suggestions before we meet up with her family in Budapest on December 25. With her family, we will be visiting Budapest, Bruges, and Paris.

We have previously traveled to Amsterdam, Prague, and Rome, so we are looking to experience new places. We love walking around towns (typically walk about 10 miles per day) and seeing the architecture, historical sites, trying new foods, and taking in the different cultures. We love history, but prefer walking tours VS museums. Christmas markets are a huge plus for us, but not a requirement.

I know this is a wide open question, but what are your must see recommendations for our open 25 days in December?
dreyerrick is offline  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 07:24 PM
  #13  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Two suggestions:

1. Ask the moderators to combine your threads. They are very similar.

2. And, maybe once you have fine-tuned your itinerary, reply with that. From there, we can give you suggestions on what to see. But I thought the goal was Xmas markets. Has that now changed?

More feedback: You have gone from a zigzag and a laundry list of places and are now asking kind of a vague question of what you should see or do. But one thing to consider, only your gf, you (and now her family?!) can decide what you want to see. You need to get back to the drawing board, research each city (once you fine-tuned!), see what's there, pinpoint closing times and dates (some places in Paris are closed Mondays or Tuesdays, for example). Pay attention to the holidays. MANY things will be closed on Xmas and New Year's.

Also, it would be helpful to know exactly how long you have with that family in those cities, too.


Travel_Nerd is offline  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 10:36 PM
  #14  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That information is very helpful.
You are departing US on Nov 30, meeting family in Budapest on December 25, the the time after that already planned with family to Budapest, Bruges and Paris.
In Europe, before meeting family, you have 24 days (3&1/2 weeks) to sightsee and travel around w/GF.

I would still very strongly consider 9-10 days in Morocco.

With Budapest at the end of your own time, and Christmas markets being fun for you, a good bit of Germany (Nuremberg, Rothenburg, Munich) and Austria, (Salzburg, ending your part of the trip in Vienna) would be good. That would take at least another 8/9 days, plus a day of travel getting there and about a day getting to Budapest.

About a week left. Lots of choices. Pick one area to explore.
German/French border Area. Freiburg, Strasbourg, etc?
Bavaria. Garmisch-Partenkirchen, with painted houses and Germany’s highest mountain, and Berchtesgaden, set in beautiful mountains and lakes, is is very pretty, especially if you get snow.
Spain? You did not mention Barcelona again. No interest? Four or five days in Barcelona would be interesting.
Switzerland, one base for four or five days.


Sassafrass is online now  
Old Sep 4th, 2022, 11:54 PM
  #15  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 97,142
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Switzerland? Venice and Florence or Milan?
suze is offline  
Old Sep 5th, 2022, 11:57 AM
  #16  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'll admit the idea of spending a month in Europe in Dec isn't very appealing to me due to weather. But since you are going anyway and thus would have the necessary clothing, I guess I'd pick Austria or Spain and no mention is even made of the UK, lots of interest there. And Switzerland, sure.

I think Austria and Switzerland would work with wanting to end up in Budapest. For CHristmas markets, you could start in Alsace, actually, then dip down to Switzerland. YOu are only visitng Paris it sounds like with family, so Alsace is very different and wouldn't be duplicating. I also could see throwing in Germany, of course. Actually those would be my preferences given the itinery.

I just threw out Spain as you hadn't been there and at least southern Spain wouldn't be as cold.

I wouldn't throw in another continent like Morocco for various reasons. One reason is that would require an entirely different wardrobe. Plus the cost of course and time to get to/from there.

I just read your prior spreadsheet and saw you wanted to spend a day or two in Fez for some reason. First, I wouldn't do that for reasons I cited. But if you are dying to go there, why are you flying into BCN and not spending time there? I don't think anyone can comment that well without some understanding of your strange itinerary, mainly why are you flying into and out of BCN? Is this just because Ryanair flies from BCN to Fes? What are your plans as to what you are going to do with all your winter clothing during that side trip? For some reason you are flying from Fes to Milan but don't even want to stay in Italy at all.

Air Arabia Maroc has cheap nonstop flights from Fes to Strasbourg, that would make more sense.
Christina is online now  
Old Sep 5th, 2022, 12:26 PM
  #17  
Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Welcome to the Fodors forums. We have merged your two threads so the discussion is in one place.
Moderator1 is online now  
Old Sep 5th, 2022, 03:27 PM
  #18  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 22,947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Vienna on your way to Budapest

https://flic.kr/p/7pKvzf https://flic.kr/p/7pFz4k https://flic.kr/p/7pFBa8
Google "Stomach, Vienna" for an excellent but different restaurant. I can't post the reference without freezing my message into an eternal send.
Michael is offline  
Old Sep 5th, 2022, 06:05 PM
  #19  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
December Vacation Recommendations

We've made two previous posts about our itinerary, and used a lot of the feedback that you gave us, and below is our final itinerary for our trip. We are meeting up with out family in Budapest, and then visiting Bruges and Paris. These three stops were already booked, so we don't have any flexibility on these. Since we're on a budget, we are flying into Florence from the US, and from Basel to Budapest, as these were cheap, direct flights. Also, we've already been to Amsterdam, Rome, and Prague, so that is why we are not seeing any of those areas on this trip.

We're looking for any recommendations that you may have from your experiences! Are there any of the locations in which you think we need more or less time? Do you have recommendations for the towns as far as what to eat, sights we must see or activities we must do?

Also, do you think a day trip from Basel to Lucerne would be worth it? We currently are not planning on it, because it is $150 and a 2 hour round trip train

All of your input has been very helpful so far, so thank you!


Florence 3 days

Venice 4 days

Vienna 3 days

Salzburg 2 days

Nuremburg 4 days

Rothenburg 1 day

Colmar (w/ day trip to Strasbourg) 4 days

Basel 2 days
dreyerrick is offline  
Old Sep 5th, 2022, 06:20 PM
  #20  
J62
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,922
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
why not just post this in the existing threads you already have going - it's better for continuity.

Direct trains from Basel to Luzern are $17 each way. (on sbb.ch)


Last edited by J62; Sep 5th, 2022 at 06:22 PM.
J62 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -