Melnq8

Okay, long story, but we're booked to leave for a month long visit to Germany, Austria and Italy in two weeks.

Due to the worsening COVID situation in Austria and Germany, the ever increasing hoops one must jump through to get from one country to the next and general concerns with COVID, we're making one last ditch effort to salvage this trip. A hour ago we were on the verge of cancelling, and we may well still do that, but we're now considering Portugal.

We'd booked a trip to Portugal for May 2020 and said trip had us going through Munich, which is the entry/departure point for the now doomed Germany, Austria and Italy trip. So, we're thinking about keeping that flight and adding a flight to/from Lisbon, with a short stay in Munich on both ends.

Our itinerary to Portugal had been planned and booked...and after a quick check almost every place has availability for our December dates. But, the original trip to Portugal was 21 nights, and we now have 29 nights (or 24-25 if we spend 1-2 nights in Munich on the way in and three nights on the way back, which is what we're considering as one night in Munich is already booked inbound, three are booked outbound).

So my question, given the itinerary below, where would you suggest adding nights and/or would you suggest adding an additional stop somewhere?

Where would you suggest spending Christmas Eve and Christmas Day?

Libson - six nights
Coimbra - three nights
Pinhao - three nights
Porto - three nights
Evora - three nights
Sintra - three nights - we'd originally planned to take a shuttle from Sintra to the Lisbon airport - will have to look into details to see if this is still an option

I've not touched this itinerary since COVID forced the cancellation in April of 2020, so I'm rusty.

Does this itinerary still make since considering the time of year? Any glaring problems?

Any help appreciated as we scramble to get this potentially doomed trip sorted.

Maribel

Yes, Mel, it does make sense, except for the 3 nights in the Douro-- going to the Douro during the holidays I wouln't recommend, because it will be very, very quiet in tiny Pinhão, and many wineries may not be open. For me, the Douro is at is very best in September-October and the first week of November, but late spring is nice as well.

I would spend Christmas Eve and Christmas Day in lively Lisbon, as I have, and the Christmas atmosphere was great. There is a beautiful giant Christmas tree in the Praça do Comércio.
After Christmas in Madrid we'll be in the Lisbon area from Dec. 26 to Jan. 4 with 6 nights in the city, which we never tired of, and 3 nights in the Cascais-Sintra area.

I've used Lisbon Taxis for the Sintra-Lisbon airport transfer several times, but Uber also operates there.
http://www.lisbontaxis.com.pt

Here is a timely description of Portugal at Christmas from my favorite blogger, Julie Dawn Fox that just landed in my inbox this morning-

https://juliedawnfox.com/christmas-n...%20-%206990152

Maribel

The difference in temperature between the summer and winter in the Douro Valley is dramatic. The saying goes in the Douro: “nove meses de inverno, três meses de inferno” (“9 months of winter, 3 months of hell”). Although our guide at the truly stunning Quinta do Crasto said: "nowadays with climate change it's more like 6 and 6".
The only advantage to December in tiny Pinhão would be the rates at its very best, most comfortable and atmospheric riverfront hotel in town, the luxury 5-star Vintage House, owned by Taylor Fladgate, when rates drop dramatically, as low as €135.
The Quinta das Carvalhas (Real Companhia Velha), walkable from the hotel, just across the bridge, is actually open daily except Dec. 24/25 and Jan. 1/2.
Also open except for Dec. 24/25 is Quinta de la Rosa, also walkable, but a longer walk (or short drive), with tours and tastings. So that's 2.

Symington's Quinta Bomfim, also easily walkable, may be open. One can send a request online.
https://www.symington.com/visit.php

It looks like there is availability at Sandeman's Quinta do Seixo from Dec. 26-28.
https://winetourism.sogrape.com/en/book-your-visit

But the driving up to some of the more remote and spectacular family-run estates would be "more adventurous" in late December, but then again....you are Colorado residents.

rialtogrl

I am with Maribel, I would not go to the Douro Valley at that time. Maybe as a day trip on the train from Porto if the weather is really nice. But if you spend three days there and the weather is not nice, it is going to not be very pleasant. If you want to do wine tasting you can do it when you are in Porto at one of the tasting rooms or at World of Wine (https://wow.pt/)

Maybe, instead, Guimarães with day trips to Ponte de Lima and Braga? At least if the weather is not great you can eat big lunches in those places

Melnq8

Thank you so much for your incredible input Maribel! We suspected that Lisbon would be the place for Christmas - and to do that we need to reverse the itinerary.

Funny you mention The Vintage House - that's the place I'd selected to replace Qunita de la Rosa which doesn't have availability.

rialtogrl -

Regarding Guimarães with day trips to Ponte de Lima and Braga - where would you place this in the itinerary?

We'd hoped to do all by public transport - is that possible?

I'm really scrambling here - we leave Nov 30 and I'm starting from scratch.

We can get flights to/from Lisbon - thinking maybe we should make Sintra the first stop and Lisbon the last as that's where Christmas falls.

Melnq8

Also - any suggestions for hotels in Lisbon? We'd originally booked VIP Executive Picoas, but I'm open to suggestions.

Melnq8

When I work this backwards from Christmas this is what I come up with - nothing yet booked in Portugal, so would appreciate any feedback:

Arrive Munich Dec 1, spend two nights Dec 1 & 2

Arrive Lisbon Dec 3 - go to Sintra - three nights, subject to change Dec 3, 4, 5, - maybe only two nights?

Evora - three nights - Dec 6, 7, 8,

Porto - thinking four nights now, Dec 9, 10, 11, & 12

Pinhao - still think we'd like to go - three nights, weather notwithstanding - December 13, 14, 15

Coimbra - three nights - Dec 16, 17, 18

??? - December 19, 20

Lisbon - six nights, December 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26

Dec 27 - fly back to Munich - three nights, already booked - Dec 27, 28 29

Dec 30 - Depart for home

Those 2 or possibly 3 extra nights can go anywhere as long as we're in Lisbon by Dec 21

Also possible to scare up one more night if we cut back Munich to one night on arrival - I've only booked one night thus far, as that was our original plan for the Austria, Italy, Germany trip

rialtogrl

-Regarding Guimarães with day trips to Ponte de Lima and Braga - where would you place this in the itinerary?-

Instead of Douro valley which I would do as a day trip from Porto if the weather is nice but it sounds like you really want to visit the Douro valley. You could visit Guimarães or Braga from Porto.

Melnq8

Change!

Now thinking flying into Porto out of Lisbon, so new order:

Guimares - three nights
Pinhao - three nights
Porto - four nights
Coimbra - three nights
Evora - three nights
Sintra - three nights
Lisbon - six nights

Maribel

Mel,
If you really have your heart set on the Douro and feel that this is your only chance to visit and won't be back, the Quinta de la Pacheca winery & hotel will also be open for touring, or at least the booking engine says daily except for Dec. 24/25.

So the possibilities for winery visits would be:
Around Pinhão:
Quinta das Carvalhas (Real Companhia Velha)
Quinta de la Rosa winery & hotel
Quinta do Seixo (Sandeman-Sogrape)
Quinta Bomfim (Taylor-Fladgate).
Outside of Peso da Régua. you'll have Quinta da Pacheca winery & hotel and Quinta do Vallado winery & hotel, which has tours in English at 11:0 and 2:30, lasting 1 hr. 15 min.
After checking, there are more possibilities than I first thought.

Maribel

Mel,
If you fly into Porto, you can head to Guimarães on the bus-
https://www.getbus.eu/en/guimaraes-airport-guimaraes

I really think you;ll want to be in Lisbon for Christmas Eve and Day to have more dining options (primarily in hotels, but there are tons of new hotels in Lisbon now). For those dates, we base in cities so as when we lose our daylight hours for outdoor sightseeing, there are always museums, shops, special Christmas activities and lights, Nativity scenes to visit in churches, bars and restaurants to entertain us.

For a Lisbon hotel, there are so many now from which to choose, but I would choose one in the lively, upmarket Chiado or in the flat Baixa (tourist central but not so during Covid and without the cruise traffic) or around Rossio square or at the lower end of Avenida da Liberdade.

The VIP Executive Picoas for me, is too far up at the top of Liberdade across from Edourdo VII park, that requires much more walking, or taxi, uber, bus or metro. From the Baixa it's a very long uphill climb.

Maribel

For a conveniently located city center Lisbon hotel, for around €150/night or slightly under or over, I'd consider these:

In Baixa:
Hotel Santa Justa (nice)
Browns Central
Hotel da Baixa

At lower end of leafy, pretty Avenida da Liberdade:
Heritage Avenida Liberdade
Vincci Liberdade
BessaHotel Liberdade

in Chiado:
Lisboa Carmo (very nice)
Hotel do Chiado

Melnq8

Thank you again Maribel, I'll take a look at those.

Maribel

Disregard the Vincci. I forgot that it is further up on the Avenida da Libertade, next to the Porto Bay Hotel. I think a hotel further down the Avenida, closer to Rossio, would be better. There are many fans here of the Marqués de Pombal at the top of Avenida da Liberdade, but it would require a much longer downhill (then back uphill) walk to the "action" closer to the river.

The 4-star Alma Lusa tucked away in a quiet corner in the Baixa is very stylish and comfy, but I don't know your price range.

Melnq8

By 'flat' Baixa I assume you meant it's easy to reach on foot, not hilly?

Maribel

Yes, no hills in Baixa, it's the flat area closest to the Tagus River, whose entrance gate is the vast Praça de Comércio square, where the giant Christmas tree will be placed. The square is also know as Terreiro do Paço.

Melnq8

Maribel -

I've been looking at hotels, but the rooms are all so small. Since we're staying for six nights I'm wondering if an apartment would me more up our alley. We also want quiet, and I'm a little worried about some of these neighborhoods being noisy. Any thoughts?

Maribel

Perhaps an apartment would be better since you have 6 nights, especially since your stay will coincide with 12/24-12/25 when dining options are limited. For 6 nights, you may want a kitchen or kitchenette and washer/dryer.

We're staying for 6 nights in a very large superior room in a fab Art Deco hotel, the Heritage Britânia, our favorite, on a quiet street off the very upmarket Avenida da Liberdade, but it's a small, jewel box boutique hotel, not an apartment, but comes with buffet breakfast, late afternoon tea spread in the library and evening port included. We're regulars there. But we wont' be in Lisbon on Dec.24-25. We arrive the day after. We already have dinner reservations on NYE at the river's edge at Ibo.

As to the noise factor, I would stay far away from the Bairro Alto nightlife area, which will be very noisy.

There are a gazillion short term apartment rentals, lots of airbnbs in Lisbon, but again, if one doesn't know the Lisbon neighborhoods, it's hard to choose. I would just stay away from the Bairro Alto nightclub area for quiet.

Melnq8

Thanks Mirabel. I'm a bit overwhelmed and researching like crazy.

A few questions (many more will follow I'm sure):

Tomar has been suggested - is this a day trip and if so from where?

Three nights in Pinhao is said to be too much - yet there seem to be several wineries open. From your list it looks as if we'd have no trouble filling two full days?. We'd hope to do this all by public transport, but it seems a car might be useful in Douro - assume we'd rent a car from Porto? Sometimes quite a bit of time can be lost when using public transport - looking for schedules, waiting for the next bus or train, etc.

Since Guimarães and Braga can be visited from Porto, does it make more sense to spend more nights in Porto and take day trips instead of basing in Guimarães for three nights? I just don't have a good feel for the distances we're talking about. It looks as if Coimbra can also be reached as a day trip from Porto, so I'm not sure if we need three nights there either.

And then that national park - we ran across that before when planning for last year, and never did figure out if we could get there by public transport - we're big walkers, so it's very much on our radar.

My head is spinning.

Maribel

Hi Mel,
I can understand your being overwhelmed, as you try to make this quick pivot in a short period of time. My head would be spinning too!

1) Tomar: it's a lovely town on the river with the Convento do Cristo, Knights Templars monument at the top of the city. We stayed at a hotel there, but you could make it a day trip from Coimbra in a rental car in about an hour. We have a friend with a Golden Visa who built a home outside of Tomar, lucky guy. The quickest train from Coimbra to Tomar, however, takes 2 hrs. 30 min. so it wouldn't be a good day trip destination by rail.
I check rail prices/times here:
https://www.cp.pt

2) Mel, you really need a car to enjoy the Douro, to get the best out of your stay. Yes, you can take the train (no reservations, purchase ticket on the day) from Porto's Campanha station to (Peso) da Régua or on east to the most beautiful, dramatic section of the river valley, the Cima Corgo where the most prestigious wineries are located, to the rather sleepy little town of Pinhão. Adhering to the train schedule would limit you, and trains don't run that often. Here's the schedule:
https://www.cp.pt/StaticFiles/timeta...nal-trains.pdf
The first hour of the rail journey is not scenic, but once approaching Régua it becomes much more so, so it’s best to sit on the right side of the car to enjoy the river views.

But in either town you would also want to get out on the road and enjoy the Douro scenery. Without a car in Pinhão you do have those 3 wineries that are walk-able. You could also walk conceivably (2 km.) to Croft's Quinta da Roêda or taxi. And you can take a taxi from the little rail station up to Sandeman's Quinta do Freixo and to Quinta do Tedo.
Pinhão taxi service that I've used:
Manuel Anselmo
Tel: (+351) 966 192 904
https://www.taxipinhao.com/en-gb/mentions-legales.

Régua taxi service that I've used:
Emmanuel David, Douro Taxis
Tel: (+351) 915 012 777
Email: [email protected]
Douro Táxi - Home.

There is hiking in the Douro as well, in good weather of course. Julie Dawn Fox explains:
https://juliedawnfox.com/hiking-douro-valley-portugal/

If you don't want to move around so much and have Porto as a home base (maybe in an apartment), yes, you could get to Guimarães and Braga by public transportation, but I would do them in 2 separate days, as they both offer a great deal, especially Guimarães, a UNESCO World Heritage Site. Brage is the ecclesiastical capital.

Yes, there is beautiful scenery and lots of hiking in the Peneda-Gêres National Park, but all that sits northeast of Braga, not handy from Porto (it would take about 2 hours by car from Porto). Here's another report by Julie Dawn Fox, about the park.
https://juliedawnfox.com/exploring-p...national-park/