JezDynamite

Hi there,

I am planning a long trip (4+ months) with my wife and 2 kids (9 and 5) and we are looking for some great bases to stay around Italy. Planning for 2023.

I was wondering if you could please have a look at what we are planning, and provide some advice. Especially around places & accommodation recommendations: that are within walking distance from a small, alive town centre, have areas for the kids to run around and possibly swim in the warmer months. And when we don't have a car, walking or easy bicycle distance to decent public transport (preferrably train) with regular service.
When in Sicily, we are looking for nice sandy beach-side locations with walking distance to a friendly small town centre (Cefalu would be wonderful, though I hear the beach is on the very small side).

We would love any recommendations you may have - or things I haven't thought of for the below ball-park itinerary (which I'm very open to changing). Or possibly friends or family contacts that have places where we could contact directly to arrange to stay?

I have found lots of options in airbnb/vrbo (yep, I'm neck deep in it!!!) - but I'm interested in what you guys think or have experienced, especially when travelling with kids - we'd prefer not being cooped up in an apartment, unless staying in a nice, small town centre. Perhaps Cremona, Brescia, Bergamo?

We are looking at various regions with a ball-park plan similar to the below :

Mid-June to late-July (6 weeks: looking for 2 bases)
We plan to have a car for:
* Sicily or Puglia (never been to South East Puglia; other than Locorotondo, Alberobello and Martina France for short visits)
- we've been to Ortigia and San Vito Lo Capo (which we really liked) - but getting in and out aren't the easiest or most convenient for day trips in my view
- also visited Taormina, Marsala, Noto, Caltanisetta, Scopello - but they aren't suitable for us
- we'd love somewhere within walking distance from a small town centre & food market; and with either pool access or close sandy beach

August (4 weeks; looking for 1 or 2 bases)
Mostly using public transport (but considering getting a car for a 2 week period if staying away from trains)
We are thinking of staying in Bolzano - near the cable car.
* cooler climate in summer, bike riding, hiking, spetzle, trips to Riva del Garda, train trips to Switzerland/Prague/other parts of Europe then London for a few days
Fly back to Italy from London (likely fly into Trieste)
Visit Udine and/or Trieste (possibly stay in an agriturismo in Friuli)
Stay a week in Venice or Choggia

Sept and Oct (looking for up to 4 bases)
Mostly using Public transport and bicycle
Padua/Ferrara/Florence (e.g. Fiesole) - also aiming to visit Verona/Gardaland
Lucca (within the walls) / Arezzo (town centre)
Friends recommended Orbetello, Sperlonga and Terracina?
We plan to have a car for:
Val D'Orcia - prefer an agriturismo
Urbino region

Early Nov (looking for 1 base)
We'll have a car for:
Ascoli Piceno (1 week)

Mid Nov (looking for 1 base)
No car
A week in Rome before leaving Italy (or at the start before heading to Sicily)

Kind regards,
Jeremy

TDudette

Welcome Jeremy. Congrats on having so much Italy time. This is part of what I shared in a PM with you but OMGolly I left out Spoleto:

"My favorites were Venice, Bellagio on Lake Como (check the city of Como or one of the lake towns), Pisa, Perugia and Rome. One of our favorite cities was Pisa. Beyond the Leaning Tower area (which is astounding...do climb the tower but don't miss the Duomo) is a lovely university city with a more authentic feel in my opinion. Our hotel was the Royal Victoria ( https://www.royalvictoria.it/ ); it is a family-owned palazzo with old world charm. I'll do a list of day trips we made from there and will post it on Europe."

Others will share more and I look forward to reading your TR.

​​Tap my moniker above and scroll down to trip reports. At the moment, "In Defense of Pisa" is on top. Also look at the others' posts...lots of info.

mjs

Where are you coming from?

hetismij2

Do you all have EU citizenship? If not you are aware of Schengen rules (90 days max) and the need for a long stay visa? UK citizens also need to obey Schengen rules post Brexit.

JezDynamite

We are coming from Australia.

JezDynamite

Yes thank you. I'm aware of that.

northie

Australia has bilateral visa waiver and recipricol with some Europaen countires and Italy is one of them. so we can use visa waiver att the end of Schengen travel.
good to note for Aussies

dreamon

It sounds like an amazing holiday. As a fellow Australian, I hope we both get to have our 2023 holidays overseas. You're lucky to be able to go for longer than 90 days.

It's a bit hard to know your plans (sounds like they are still fluid) but a few comments...

As dull as it sounds, I'd start a spreadsheet (perhaps a week for each row) and start filling out where you'd like to be. The challenge, as always, will be having a nice relaxing pace but also seeing all the places you'd like to visit.

You mention Cremona, Brescia and Bergamo but it's not shown anywhere in your rough itinerary. Of those three I've visited Bergamo and enjoyed it very much. It's also within cooee of the mountains and lake Como.

So the plan is Sicily or Puglia (but not both)? That sounds good. You might be able to include a short time in Calabria if you want. Visiting Sperlonga, etc, is best done when heading north I think. They are not really near anywhere else that you're going. Having one or two bases may mean a number of long day trips - again it's that juggle between not moving on but still wanting to be a tourist.

I would plot out your path using google maps (you can put in up to 10 destinations). It strikes me that I'd start north (fly into Milan or Munich perhaps) and visit the Dolomites first (Bolzano is not really in the Dolomites, I know) and end up in Palermo, flying home from there. Going south, north and southwards again sounds counter intuitive. A wiggly path southwards sounds better to me.

I might be tempted by a train trip into Switzerland (or Austria) but I wouldn't go to either Prague or London unless you have a particular reason to do so (e.g. a wedding).

Friuli area is great. I haven't been to Chioggia but Treviso is really nice and there are lots of day trips possible from there. Everyone will say that you MUST stay in Venice but Venice gets enough tourists without everyone being compelled to stay there. It's a quick and easy train ride from Treviso to Venice if you prefer to stay elsewhere.

I visited Urbino using public transport. A car would perhaps have been good to go further afield but I had no problems at all filling my 3-4 nights there (and could easily have had longer).

Two things which we found travelling with our kids that I recommend - they each had a backpack (with a hip strap) which was approximately the same size as their school bag, plus a tiny backpack for day trips. All their stuff was in their own backpack (barring shared toiletries) and they had to be responsible for their own stuff and their own bag. And they each had a scrap book (take sticky tape) where they were supposed to keep a brief journal and they could keep brochures, tickets, found objects, etc. My son took a soccer ball (deflated for the flight) which was just brilliant for him. You could even buy things like that over there as they're the best souvenirs.

Very envious. I almost wish our kids were young enough to go again with us!

cheska15

northie my understanding is that Italy does not have a bilateral visa waiver with Italy for longer than 90 days. That’s is why we did the 12 month tourist visa for France. Could you please provide any information that supports your view.

JezDynamite

Thank you. I got identical advice from the consulate in Sydney via email. As long as I fly back into Italy from outside Schengen region and advise them I'd like to enter under the bilateral agreement.

JezDynamite

I wrote to the consulate months ago and confirmed what northie wrote. The consulate advised I show the Italian border official their email to me. Must fly in from outside Schengen.
3 months Schengen and 3 months bilateral after but you can't leave Italy during the 3 months and expect to come back in (if asked, you may have to prove you didn't leave Italy in 3 month bilateral visa period).

cheska15

Thanks that is fabulous. I will write to the embassy tomorrow. Also now with Austria. So with the bilateral visa waiver agreement with Germany, Italy and Austria it will make life easier.

Fact-Sheet-Austrian-Australian-Bilateral-Agreement-on-Visa-Free-Short.pdf

bilboburgler

I've been to both Sicily and Puglia a fair few times now. If you must see the 7 world UNESCO sites that are in Sicily then go there. If on the otherhand, you like people who are just .... a bit more layed back and don't suffer from Anglo-Saxon rush then go to Puglia. I'd not go to both. It will be hot in both.

JezDynamite

No probs. I was told the bilateral visa arrangement can only occur immediately after the Schengen visit. I was initially hoping I could make use of multiple bilateral visas in different countries (1 bilateral after another bilateral) but I'm sure that isn't possible.

cheska15

Good point. I too was thinking that as long as you arrived from somewhere like England for a few weeks, a person could go back to Italy, depart for another non schengen country, go to Germany and follow that plan.
The agreement with Austria states that other Schengen countries may not agree with this agreement. Like you I would also have an email to carry. I think if you are someone older it could be ok. However if I was young and had limited amounts of money it might be a different story.

However I must add that applying for the 12 month tourist visa for France was a relatively simple if not time consuming process.

dreamon

This information about the bilateral visas is really interesting. It would be nice to imagine that one day I'll be in a position to take advantage of it!

Can I ask - is the best source of information the websites of your particular destination country or is there an Australian website which provides this information?

"You must enter Austria directly (no transit through a third country)"
Do you know, when the document says you must not transit via another country, does that mean, for example, that after your 90 days Schengen allowance, you have to somehow get to your 'bilateral' country without entering (even in transit) another country? That's how it reads. So, for example, you spend your 90 day Schengen allowance in France, you'd have to fly directly to Austria (without transit) and could not travel overland to Austria?

cheska15

dreamon what it means is you have to arrive in Italy from a non Schengen country. I would depart Italy, fly to London, stay for possibly a couple of days and then return. You could not travel from France for example and then return to Italy, Germany or Austria

JezDynamite

Yep, we sure are lucky. We've been planning and saving for years, so some of the luck is self made, but still very lucky to be in this situation. We will need to rent our house out to cover expenses at home.

Our initial plans (which are still completely up in the air) are to:
* focus each part of the trip in month chunks with different experiences (one month town, another beach, another agriturismo)
* Pre-summer: Sicily/Puglia - beach/warmth/food
* August: cooler places away from Italian school holiday crowds (e.g. Dolomites; near a lake) - bikes, swimming, hiking, trains to other parts of Europe
* Sept and some of Oct: Countryside in Friuli/Emilia Romagna/Tuscany with hopefully a pool onsite
* Rest of Oct: Umbria/Le Marche (Lake Trasimeno)
* 1 week in Rome at the end

Great ideas, I'm already doing both things you suggest. We're on the same page!

JezDynamite

I've looked at doing just what you mention, but the sagre/feste that my wife most likes (Truffle, Chestnuts, food) are in Tuscany and Le Marche/Umbria in Sept and Oct.
And we really want to go to Sicily which we all love; but swimming in October (at least in mid October) isn't that pleasant in Sicily. We were there for our honeymoon in early Oct in 2012 (getting too cool on many days to swim) and again in early June 2016 (June was amazing swimming weather).

So we figured to start in Sicily in June/July to be able to swim (and avoid August school holidays in Sicily); then fly up to Dolomites for August; leave Europe to take up the bilateral visa, and fly back into Milan/Verona/Treviso/Trieste/Venice and continue from there for the last 2.5 months.

Makes leasing a car not a good option for the first part down south (unless we want to drive from Rome or Milan down south to Sicily and back again), but I think leasing is feasible for the second part if we pick up in Milan and return in Rome.
We are still trying to work out whether we want a car for the whole of the second part of the trip.

JezDynamite

Sorry about that; there's just so many places we are looking at in different parts and I thought I was drowning people as it is with info.

Do you recommend anywhere to stay in Bergamo?

Sorry, yep - its further north. So many nice beaches are mentioned in the Bandiera Blu 2021 listing, I think I just have to pick one and research it.
And even though we are keenest on the beaches in Sicily, its easily tempting to stay in more beach places up north.
What were your favourite locations that you could see yourself staying for a month (whether a beach or not)?

I started reading up on Bevagna and Foligno in Umbria - and both sound wonderful.