jeffbowen9449

We have booked our first trip to Europe this summer. We are so excited. It will be my wife and I with our 14 and 17 year old daughters.

I have booked my flights and airbnb/VRBO's already so our trip outline is set. This message board seems to have quite a bit of helpful people with experience traveling to these areas, so I thought I would share our schedule and see if any of you had good ideas for can't miss stops or places to eat aside from all the top rated tourist attractions (we will definitely make stops at the big attractions).

Any other travel or packing tips would be appreciated also.

Here is our itenerary:

June 10th- fly from Chicago to London (overnight)
June 11-15- London
Train from London to Paris
June 15-19- Paris
Flight from Paris to Rome
June 19-22- Rome
Train from Rome to Naples
June 22-24 Naples
Flight from Naples to Chicago

Thank you in advance for you help.

janisj

Welcome to Fodors

Just an initial comment -- There is a little less time in each destination than you may think. You repeatedly listed two cities on the same day and it really doesn' work that way.

What you actually have is:
June 10th- fly from Chicago to London (overnight)
June 11-14 - London . . . 3.5 days (and jet lag)
June 15-18 - Paris . . . 3.5 days or a skosh more depending on how early a train you take
June 19-21- Rome . . . 2.5 days
June 22-23 Naples . . . 1.5 days
June 24 fly home

Dashing out and I'll post more later but just wanted you to have a feeling of the pace of your trip.

jeffbowen9449

Yeah, I'm good on the pace of our trip. I fully realize that this isn't how everyone likes to travel. I'm ok with this. Our girls travel well and are excited about each of the stops on our trip.

Thanks again for the help.

Sassafrass

To start. Do not count days twice. It gives a false impression of how much time you have in a place. Do not count arrival or departure days as sightseeing days. You may be jet lagged first or second day. Each move will take at least 1/2 day or more. In your case, they are longer distances, Involving getting from hotel to airport or train station, wait at airport, actual travel time, getting to next hotel, etc.

You actually have:
London, 3 days (4 nights)
Paris, 3 days and perhaps a half (4 nights)
Rome, 2 days and an evening (3 nights)
Naples 1 & 1/2 days (2 nights)

You are doing OK until Rome. Even then you can see quite a lot there in a couple of days. Then comes Naples.

Did you want to see only the city of Naples, not any of the Amalfi Coast, Pompeii, Positano, Amalfi, etc? It seems a shame to go all that way to one of the most beautiful places on earth for basically only one day.

TBH, I would either change departure flight to Rome and cut Naples, or cut Rome and keep Naples and the AC. If you were doing mostly Italy, I would usually say keep Rome because it is amazing and tempting, but you are already doing two major cities, and you have already purchased flights out of Naples

Departure from Naples means you need to be in that vicinity the night before. so I would likely cut Rome altogether or cut it to only one very full day and two nights and add another day and night to the AC (Naples). I think you and your daughters will find the AC to be breath taking. What an incredible way to end a trip to Europe, dinner overlooking the AC from Positano or Amalfi, or Bay of Naples from Sorrento.

Day 1: Depart Chicago (June 10)
Day 2: Arrive London, get settled into hotel, self walking tour (June 11)
Day 3, 4, 5: London (June 12, 13, 14)
Day 6: Travel to Paris by train, late afternoon, evening in Paris (June 15)
Day 7, 8, 9: Paris (June 16, 17, 18)
Day 10: Travel to Rome (June 19
Day 11, 12: Rome (June 20, 21). ?
Day 13: Travel to Naples (June 22). ?
Day 14: Naples (June 23) ?
Day 15: Depart for Home (June 24)

janisj

You did come here for advice and say this is your first trip to Europe. I personally would not be all that happy with this pace and especially with kids.

Let's just talk about London . . . You will have three usable days for the largest city (by a huge margin) in Western Europe with soooooo many things for families. And likely some or all of you will take a day or two to recover from the jet lag. Just a few of the 'musts': Tower of London, Hampton Court Palace, British Museum, the V&A, Science Museum, Natural History Museum, Westminster Abbey, St Paul's, one of the several world famous street markets, the Warner Brothers Harry Potter Studio, Thames/Greenwich, Windsor Castle, theatre/concerts. There are many more major sites - that is just the short list. Out of those you'd be lucky to fit in six in 3 days

Paris is much smaller with sites somewhat nearer each other -- but it has almost as many must-sees

And your Italy segment is REALLY rushed. Naples -- what is it you want to see/do there?? Pompeii? Capri? The AC? Herculaneum? - Well, pick one

Sarastro

What you have done is what everyone does on a first trip - over schedule and underestimate the time required to change cities. I agree with the others, your itinerary is workable up to Italy. If this trip is already booked, the advice here is not going to be terribly useful, but I do have one packing tip:

After your bags are packed, and you are ready, removed half of the contents and leave them behind. Keep the toothbrush.

Sassafrass

To build on Janisj’s points. European cities are so incredibly and nearly overwhelmingly packed with rich history, architecture and culture that it is impossible for anyone to fully comprehend until they are there. Such a fast pace in London and Paris will have to be really well planned for times when things are open and for transportation.

Europe is a lot more than cities. Smaller, walled cities, castles, etc. are exciting, beautiful and have a lot of history. Had you not already booked flights, I would have suggested you limit the trip to England and France, see a bit of England outside of London (Bath or the Cotswolds), and spend more time in France (for Versailles and another area) or visit only Italy, including Venice and Florence. However, you do already have tickets, so it would be good to alter the trip where you can, limiting it to three cities or areas.

Travel between distant places eats up so much time. You see more by grouping things closer together and eliminating so much travel.
Six of your 15 days are travel days, two being the flights from/to the US, one arrival day and the other three at least half days or more. That brings your on the ground time for sightseeing to only 10 & 1/2 days. You could save a half day of travel by flying from Paris directly to Naples, saving Rome for another trip when you have time for Italy.

KTtravel

Quick as your trip will be, it is doable, particularly if you don't plan to see much in the Naples area. Hopefully, you will enjoy this "intro to Europe" trip so much, this will be the beginning of many trips to come.

If you decide to skip Rome, and save it for the next trip, you would be able to have a more relaxed trip. However, if Rome is a must, it can be done but I wouldn't try to plan much for your last days as your energy levels will likely be low. Don't miss the wonderful pizza in Naples!

mjs

I would skip Naples and add the time to Rome and depart from Rome. This is your first trip to Europe and you do not know whether this is a good pace for you. We are trying to tell you that it really isn't.

Sassafrass

+1
Unless he can change them, he already has tickets out of Naples, so has to be in Naples the night before his flight.

jeffbowen9449

I appreciate the advice and anticipated that the most common advice would be to slow down and visit less cities. We originally planned on seeing London, Paris, and Rome with this trip. Then when I went to buy plane tickets it was much cheaper to fly home from Naples then Rome. So I bought from Naples.

We are big planners and will have this trip planned down to the minute nearly, while still allowing for some flexibility. I really, really enjoy the planning part as it helps me build up anticipation and I learn so much about these places while doing research.

Since this is our first trip, we know there is way too much to see in one visit, but our oldest is 17 and will soon be out of our house. We have taken our girls to almost 40 states so far and over 20 national parks. Visiting Europe breaks down into many different trips. This first one we are looking to see the highlights. I feel like we can see a lot in 3 days in London. Same for Paris. We were going to do Rome in a different trip, but decided to go for it since we felt like 2 days would allow us to see the colosseum and Vatican. Naples was an add on because of the cheaper flight and my sister in law said Pompeii was cool. So our original plan was just to visit there with our day. In looking at it more the AC look incredible, so we may switch or at least try to get over there for a few hours for some pictures and a meal.

I'm sure travel days are going to be complex. I am anticipating that it will take longer than we want, but we will plan for that and give ourselves enough time to get through airports and train stations.

Any packing tips or food spots to recommend would be awesome. Or other advice about getting around or avoiding lines at popular sites. Usefulness of the city passes or not? Or maybe lesser known attractions that you would recommend?

Thanks everyone again. Appreciate the help.

AJPeabody

One travel detail often overlooked on a first trip: Closure days. Most sites will have one or two closure days, usually Sunday, and often Monday in addition. Some French museums are closed Tuesdays. We like to schedule our travel days for Sundays for this reason. It would be frustrating to have one of your precious touring days be a closure day.

As you say you are planners, you will already know that many desirable sites now require advance reservations/tickets for timed entry. Try for a ticket too late and you will be out of luck.

One thing you cannot plan for is the weather. If the only day you can see, for instance, Pompeii is a rainstorm washout, you have no alternate day. This is another background reason why we discourage brief touchdown visits to any locale.

You may want to consider these nitty gritty details in your planning.

TDudette

Welcome jeffbowen9449. Fellow fodorites, although I agree with everyone's comments, jeffbowen's

"I have booked my flights and airbnb/VRBO's already so our trip outline is set."

tells you what he and his family need. I googled 'only 2 days in Paris' and a bunch of sites came up with great ideas. Before we became travel veterans, my hub and I took the hop-on, hop-off buses. I would consider guided tours for the busiest sites: your tickets will bought and you won't wait in line. And/or get tickets and passes in advance online...there should be separate lines for ticket holders at the major sites.

Please share your experiences and add to everyone's knowledge!

progol

Speaking of weather, Rome and Naples will likely be hot and the popular tourist sites will be crowded, so do keep that in mind when you're planning your touring.

You will have one full day in Naples. The city itself is wonderful and has some important cultural sites, including the National Archeological museum. It's a fun city, with a great energy and my husband and I have really enjoyed our 2 visits there. I don't know whether that would suffice for your family, but there is plenty to see in that one+ day.

If you do want to explore outside the city, I would focus that on the one activity that most interests you, keeping in mind that the popular destinations will likely be very crowded. Pompeii is a huge site and will likely be especially hot so if you go there, I'd go as early as possible and to make the most of the experience, hire a guide. Herculaneum is an alternative site, and a place we really loved as it was far less crowded and easier to manage and is easily visited from Naples, too. No, it's not the Pompeii of our imagination, but it's a fantastic smaller city that is incredibly intact.

Another option, and probably a more romantic way to deal with the day is to take a ferry. As an example, Naples ferries sail to Capri, which many people do as a day trip; it's a popular destination, though also very crowded. So I give this as an option though the recommendation comes with many caveats, given the time of year. But traveling with 2 teens will certainly influence your choice for the day, I'm sure.
Here's the link to the Naples ferry schedule (the summer schedule hasn't been posted yet, however):
https://www.naplesbayferry.com/en/index

janisj

"We are big planners and will have this trip planned down to the minute nearly . . ."

Big - like really BIG - mistake. One simply cannot plan down to the minute, or even the hour. But since your mind seems to be set rock hard I do wish you luck and a nice trip.

Sassafrass

If you do choose Pompeii, take plenty of water, sun screen and sun hats. The stone makes it seem hotter and there is little to no shade. That being said, I have been there several times, once in late July and enjoyed it very much even then. Hire a guide at the entrance. There are some cafes near the entrance. Have a Lemonada (frozen lemonade kind of treat) when you finish.

HOHO busses in London and Paris are horrible. People think it gives you an orientation, but it doesn’t. You just see the exterior of some buildings. It is like looking in the window of a restaurant, but not being allowed food. It is much better to pick things you actually want to see and see them.
In London, if you are inside the bus, you see other cars and busses. If you are on top, you breathe fumes. Often you are stopped in traffic between stops, so you waste time sitting there.
In Paris, you really do not see much at all from inside the bus.
The center of Rome is small enough that you can see a lot on a good walk.

Some things we love in London: Tower of London, Shows in the evening, The Globe theater, a canal boat trip, some of the markets, a concert in one of the churches, The Victoria & Albert museum, Westminster, British Museum, St Paul’s, Hampton Court, etc., etc.

kerouac

Your daughters might find this trip outstanding for a first taste of Europe, but their parents might drop from exhaustion. When I was 17, I made a solo trip to just about EVERYWHERE in Europe (from Norway to Portugal and Finland to Italy -- and of course everywhere in between because it was all by train).

I would say that the main thing to imagine is that this is not a once-in-a-lifetime trip as some of these trips used to be. Relax a bit and do part of it now and plan for a second trip in a year or two. (I do understand that you probably fear that this is your last chance for a family trip with your daughters, but they will line of for a second trip if the first one is great, even if they have to leave their boyfriends behind for a couple of weeks -- and even if a bit of financial participation is required.)

Jean

One interesting/fascinating distraction early in a day, even as you're just walking from place to place, can wipe out a lot of the careful planning for the following hours. And there will be countless distractions everywhere you go on this trip These destinations are not like anywhere you've visited with your family, and I doubt you want to be constantly hounding everyone to "keep moving." Your family has experience traveling together, but it's just a fact that a group moves only as fast as the slowest person.

And I feel like a nagging parent when I mention that you need to plan a little time during a 2-week trip to deal with laundry. (Don't try to take enough clothes to eliminate doing laundry!) You can do a little in your hotel bathroom, but allow time to dry before you have to pack up and move. You can pay to have it done at a laundromat, but you need to spend a little time dropping off and picking up during business hours. Most hotels can handle it for you, but you'll pay more which might be worth it in a tight itinerary.

TDudette

HoHo buses can be bad as Sassafrass writes above. We never tried them in London as we were on a guided tour. In Paris, one time it gave us a visual and the top sites and we returned later by bus or subway to explore what we liked best so it was fine. Another time, we got off at Notre Dame, and things were so crowded, the next HoHo bus was full so we wasted 40 minutes waiting for the next one to arrive.

CherylDewson

Since no one has really touched your question about recommending "food spots" I'll take a shot.

Europe isn't like America where there are chain restaurants you have to visit. Rome is a huge city and there's literally thousands of really good food spots. Part of the travelling experience is walking around and trying different restaurants.

If you want chain establishment, Autogrill in Rome is a chain gas station with food that lots of Americans enjoy, but I know a lot of Italians think it's crap.

If you can narrow down the neighbourhood you're going to be in, what types of cuisines or ambience you enjoy, we can help you with restaurants. But just asking what are must visit food spots in London is a tough question to answer.

In my experience, not planning restaurants in Europe and exploring different neighbourhoods than landing on a local establishment is more fulfilling.