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American tourists ignore CDC travel warnings on Europe

American tourists ignore CDC travel warnings on Europe

Old Nov 24th, 2021, 09:56 AM
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American tourists ignore CDC travel warnings on Europe

https://viewfromthewing.com/why-no-o...-go-to-europe/

The CDC is telling Americans to “avoid travel” to Germany and Denmark in addition to Austria, the U.K. and other parts of Western Europe. No one is listening. And that’s the CDC’s fault. We haven’t failed the guidance, the guidance has failed us.

Let’s look at a warning to avoid travel to Germany,


  • The recommendation applies to everyone, heading anywhere in the country
  • That means the guidance is the same whether you’re vaccinated or not, and whether you’re boosted or not
  • It’s the same for those under 50 and those over 80
  • And it’s a warning that is the same for all of Germany, when the greatest spread is in the undervaxed former East Germany (and the easternmost part of the former West Germany)
These recommendations are too blunt to be useful. They also lack credibility because risk levels are different for different people traveling to different places. Transatlantic flights are full – bringing people both directions – while public health officials whistle in the wind.
I think I went to some places over the summer which may have had CDC warnings and was seeing high number of cases. Europe was still rolling out vaccinations, being a couple of months behind the UK and US.

May not be a good time to go now, with some Christmas markets closed and widespread protests in some European cities as governments consider reimposing restrictions.

One thing that the EU did, which probably isn't working out for them, is that they allow exception for "recovered" people. When the EU debated allowing intra-EU travel back in the spring, the vaccine rollout had barely started and they were scrambling to secure doses for their people. So the EU allowed the EU digital pass to allow unvaccinated but recovered people to be able to travel. Later on when some countries imposed vaccine passports to go to restaurants and other venues, they again allowed recovered people.

Problem is that infection doesn't give people the same amount of antibodies. Lot of variation from individual to individual and there's no way to know if a given recovered person has protection comparable to a vaccinated person. Bigger problem is that it gave people an excuse not to get vaccinated.

Now, as cases surge in many EU countries, they're going to reimpose restrictions and people are rioting. One issue that alienated people is that you could use the negative recent test to get a 3-day green pass and apparently some number of people were doing that. Over the summer, covid tests were free to EU residents so again, another way to avoid vaccination. But as govt. officials talked about getting rid of this loophole, apparently it caused some to protest, even violently./

EU countries haven't even broached the idea of vaccine mandates apparently. Not sure if private employers are requiring it but many parliaments are too fractured to support something like vaccine mandates./


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Old Nov 24th, 2021, 10:30 AM
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No vaccine mandates in Europe. Really?
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Old Nov 24th, 2021, 11:02 AM
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Last edited by LucieV; Nov 24th, 2021 at 11:11 AM.
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Old Nov 24th, 2021, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dukey1 View Post
No vaccine mandates in Europe. Really?

Not only no mandates, apparently "covid parties" are not uncommon.
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Old Nov 24th, 2021, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Dukey1 View Post
No vaccine mandates in Europe. Really?
France has mandates for health care workers which have created vigorous opposition.
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Old Nov 24th, 2021, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukey1 View Post
No vaccine mandates in Europe. Really?
Austria has a vaccine mandate.
Germany is considering one.

The riots are over reported and have little to do with Covid-19 restrictions.

Colder weather sends people indoors which increases the chance of catching it. School children and their parents are the groups with the highest infection rates now.
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Old Nov 24th, 2021, 02:35 PM
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Austrian mandate isn't in effect until Feb 1.

It's for all citizens, not through employers or schools.
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 12:37 AM
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Italian green pass, try going into a restaurant without one!
Belgium
Cyprus
France
Greece
Hungary
Isreal
Latvia
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Portugal
Rep Ireland
Slovenia
Some parts of Spain
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 03:47 AM
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Switzerland has a QR code with Vax status system required for entry into restaurants and other venues. Still are anti-vaxxers too.
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 04:41 AM
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I haven’t been to Europe in nearly three years. I’m behind schedule in a list of Europe trips I hoped to complete. I’m triple vaccinated and not worried. What does concern me is that my long time cat sitter is moving away. I get very anxious leaving her. She’s 14.
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 05:13 AM
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We're getting ready to push the cancel button on our month long trip to Portugal, for which we were to leave on Tuesday. We were flying thorough Munich and spending a few days there on either side of the trip and there's just no way to rejig the flights at this point without a whole lot of money - believe me, we've tried.

The original trip was for Austria, Italy and Germany, but we pivoted last week and switched to Portugal.

So, Portugal gets cancelled for the second year in a row.

Sure glad we made it to Switzerland in October. It's helped the itchy feet somewhat.
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 05:39 AM
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I would stick to one destination only.
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 07:12 AM
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One of my nephews has been in Vienna since September for a "semester abroad" (actually a term abroad, on the quarter system) from North Carolina State University. Austria went to a full lockdown this week, so my sister in law, his mother, who was visiting last week, made it back with only a day to spare. His brother and father (parents divorced) were also there and had to leave early. All his classes were shifted to online only, so he's flying back to North Carolina today, a month earlier than planned, since he can do his schoolwork remotely from there, rather than sitting in a barren student apartment unable to do much of anything in Vienna.
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 08:26 AM
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EU considering limiting the validity of vaccination to 9 months:

The European Union is considering a nine-month expiration date on its Covid-19 vaccine certificates, which allow tourists certain freedoms to travel while the coronavirus pandemic still rages.

The European Commission, the executive arm of the EU, proposed Thursday that the EU Digital Covid Certificate should be updated. This document has allowed people to travel more easily amid the pandemic by outlining their vaccination status, whether they have recently recovered from the virus, or whether they have recently tested negative.

The idea now is that the document has a life span of nine months after the first set of vaccines are administered — so after the second dose for Pfizer-BioNTech shot, for example, or after one dose of the Johnson & Johnsonvaccine. The idea is that as immunity wanes, then a vaccine passport will expire.

Thursday's recommendation does not yet address booster shots. The commission said that "it can reasonably be expected that protection from booster vaccinations may last longer than that resulting from the primary vaccination series."
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/25/covi...cine-pass.html

I think it's way too early to conclude how long boosters protect. We should have some data from Israel in January and February, when the people who got the earliest boosters reach the 6 months mark.

The commission should be revoking the pass of the "recovered" and eliminate that category. While vaccine uptake is generally better than the US, it still wasn't high enough.
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 10:51 AM
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A chart of boosters administered as a percentage of the population in Europe. As one might expect, UK is way out ahead but it sounds like the EU countries are getting their acts together.




Boosters in Europe
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 12:43 PM
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The UK was in severe need of boosters after using that useless AstraZence vaccine. (And my first shot in France was AstraZeneca!)
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 01:14 PM
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Gardyloo, your nephew will eventually have 'student-years' memories of all that he and his classmates had to go through. Those recollections will likely be quite different from those of earlier generations, yeah?
I am done. the booster
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 02:29 PM
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We recently cancelled a trip scheduled for the UK, Germany, and The Netherlands in April 2022 and decided to travel elsewhere than Europe. We are hoping our other trip which includes Switzerland, Italy, and a
Med cruise in early September 2022 is still a go but if things have not improved by THAT timeframe then I guess we are doomed to remain amongst the many unvaccinated people in our own country.
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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukey1 View Post
We recently cancelled a trip scheduled for the UK, Germany, and The Netherlands in April 2022 and decided to travel elsewhere than Europe. We are hoping our other trip which includes Switzerland, Italy, and a
Med cruise in early September 2022 is still a go but if things have not improved by THAT timeframe then I guess we are doomed to remain amongst the many unvaccinated people in our own country.
If the seasonal pattern repeats, it should be okay by April. OTOH, they didn't have Delta last April.

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Old Nov 25th, 2021, 05:17 PM
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There’s a new variant spreading in South Africa and it sounds ominous so far.


https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/11...e=articleShare

Last edited by gruezi; Nov 25th, 2021 at 05:21 PM.
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