A mishmosh trip- with a few questions

Old Nov 14th, 2022, 10:46 AM
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A mishmosh trip- with a few questions

This is about a month-long trip. Answers to specific questions or suggestions on re-routes welcome. DH wants to avoid flights from NY all the way to and from Israel so we are trying to put in trips of interest and bounce our way over. We are active retirees (65 and 76 with a comfortable but not outrageous budget). I will check the threads for hotel and to-do suggestions, though welcome them. Here's the itinerary under construction! Israel is 7-10 days for family events so we have about 20-23 days to allocate among the other locations.


NY to Lisbon. How long would you spend in Lisbon?
Wroclaw, Poland. (DH was born here). Looking for a really good private guide and driver.
Prague. How long would you spend in Prague? Favorite guide?
Tel Aviv (no questions) (10 days). We both have lived there.
Marrakesh. How long would you spend? Tour guide? Best way to get around?
Barcelona and Madrid
Fly to NY from Madrid or Barcelona?

Bonus question, Laundry on long trips? Just use hotel services? I hate to spend my time at a laundromat

Thanks for any helpful thoughts.

ibz40 is offline  
Old Nov 14th, 2022, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ibz40 View Post
This is about a month-long trip. Answers to specific questions or suggestions on re-routes welcome. DH wants to avoid flights from NY all the way to and from Israel so we are trying to put in trips of interest and bounce our way over. We are active retirees (65 and 76 with a comfortable but not outrageous budget). I will check the threads for hotel and to-do suggestions, though welcome them. Here's the itinerary under construction! Israel is 7-10 days for family events so we have about 20-23 days to allocate among the other locations.


NY to Lisbon. How long would you spend in Lisbon?
Wroclaw, Poland. (DH was born here). Looking for a really good private guide and driver.
Prague. How long would you spend in Prague? Favorite guide?
Tel Aviv (no questions) (10 days). We both have lived there.
Marrakesh. How long would you spend? Tour guide? Best way to get around?
Barcelona and Madrid
Fly to NY from Madrid or Barcelona?

Bonus question, Laundry on long trips? Just use hotel services? I hate to spend my time at a laundromat

Thanks for any helpful thoughts.
Except for Barcelona and Madrid, I see no way you can avoid flights unless you want to put yourself through the torture of very long train rides. Use Rome2rio to help you map out your journeys.
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Old Nov 14th, 2022, 01:01 PM
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Do you want to limit flights? Or break the tripís components up with these other stays throughtout Europe and Morocco?
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Old Nov 14th, 2022, 01:23 PM
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Why Portugal to start then all the way up to Poland? You are flying all over the place which is really not good, for the climate or for you.
Flying from Portugal to Wroclow takes 5 plus hours not including getting to and from the airports and hanging around in them.
From there to Prague you can get a bus or train. Prague to Tel Aviv is another long flight. For Marrakech you are looking at another 9 hour flight. These places are a long way from each other.
You must really like seeing the insides of airports and airplanes.

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Old Nov 14th, 2022, 02:24 PM
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Regarding laundry...

We try to rent apartments with access to a washer, whether shared or in the unit. Some hotels also have a laundry room.

Many big cities have laundromats on just about every corner, or so it seems. A small investment of time IME.
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Old Nov 14th, 2022, 02:44 PM
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Love all the destinations. Hate the idea of putting them all in a single month-long trip.

You're not totally clear on how many days you must/want to be in Israel, but if it's actually 10 days and you spend partial (full?) days getting there and traveling onward.... Then you only have about 18 days to go elsewhere. You've listed 6 destinations and haven't accounted for time to travel between points. Your plan means lots of airports and train stations, lots of time with your butts in seats.

After you've done some research on transit times, logistics and costs, you may decide to drop one or two or three of your stops (like maybe the whole Morocco/Spain/Portugal idea which could be its own one-month trip). Keep in mind whatever the flight/train time, you still have to include time to get to/from airports/stations, pre-flight check-in, think about avoiding a departure time that creates a donut hole in the day and remaining prepared for the ever-present risk of delays which goes up exponentially with the number of flights.

You can pay people to do laundry. It just depends on how much you want to spend. Hotels often offer this service, or there are laundromats that do wash-and-fold in every major city.
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Old Nov 14th, 2022, 09:34 PM
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Although a month is a decent amount of time, you have a lot of places on your list, plus all the travel time. You'd lose about a day each time you move on. I'd think about cutting out a couple of places. Have you tried doing a day by day itinerary, just the bare bones would help you to see how much time you'll have in each place.

We've travelled in Europe for 5 and 6 weeks and just do laundry in the bathroom sink. Take stuff that dries quickly and doesn't crease too much. Wash at night, hang over the shower or bath until morning and it's stopped dripping. If you have a couple of nights in most places, clothing and underwear should dry easily.
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Old Nov 14th, 2022, 10:02 PM
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Ditto most of the above comments. Lisbon, Madrid, Barcelona, Poland, Prague . . . would just about fill a month-long trip by themselves, if you took any day trips at all. That is without any time in Israel and eliminating Morocco entirely.

If you are talking about exactly 30 days . . . then that nets 27.5 days on the ground after transatlantic flights. Then 1 day (at least) for jet lag recovery. Then almost a full day for transit between destinations (whether one flies or takes trains) so for just the five Continental destinations you'd be down to about 23 days free and clear total.

So something (several things actually) has to give. You need seven to ten days in Israel - meaning 8 to 11 nights plus the 1.5 days for transatlantic travel. So IMO for 'fillers' before and after Israel -- and with Wroclaw a must -- I'd limit myself to Poland and the Czech republic, before Israel -- then afterwards a couple of days in some Continental hub city connecting to the flight home. That final couple of days could be in Paris, or Frankfurt, or Madrid, or London or any/whichever city gets you good flights from Israel / to the States.
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Old Nov 15th, 2022, 12:07 AM
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Laundry; give to hotel, stay in airbnb and use their kit, go to full service laundromat
Shot gun approach to planning Europe; you hate the climate? Come on think about how to do fewer high carbon moves, and choose places that make sense
Marrakesh; just staying within the walls of the city requires about 4 nights, there is so much to see and once you add in visiting a spa etc, I'd stay in a converted hotel inside the walls to get the whole night time experience. If you stay with the better ones they will organise any visits. If you want to leave the walls and say go to the low-Atlas then you need to add a night for each experience. Visit the large water park on the way back to the airport.
Prague; needs at least 4 nights, again if you want to leave town you need to add more nights
Time of year; you don't mention when you are coming. This makes a big difference.
Madrid; two world class museums, Toledo just down the road etc etc 5 nights
Barcelona; you could rush around in 3 nights but again no

I think you are rushing too much to see high points in a region of high points. Most people don't just want to see the one city like this, you miss all the other fantastic things. So, for example, just visiting Barcelona is crazy when you have Figueres and Girona just down the railway line.
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Old Nov 15th, 2022, 12:30 AM
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I think OP wanted shorter Transatlantic flights rather than the long direct flight to Tel Aviv. Flying to Poland first, while it makes sense logistically, doesn't help in that respect, as it is also a long flight.

What they haven't done is consider how far apart their list of places to visit are, or how to join up the dots.
They need to look at a map and see the distances involved, see the flights involved, each taking a full day and costing quite a bit, and have a rethink.

No one enjoys 13 hours on a plane but honestly I would rather spend the money on business class for thirteen hours to Tel Aviv than so much money and time on criss-crossing Europe by plane, no matter which class you fly.
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Old Nov 15th, 2022, 10:59 PM
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To answer your actual question (instead of offering an opinion) I'd say 3 full days minimum in Lisbon and in Prague. We enjoyed Prague a lot more than Lisbon but everyone is different.
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Old Nov 16th, 2022, 06:05 AM
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I always plan my trips by nights because that is easier with hotel reservations. Additionally, generally the rule of thumb is 2 nights gives you one full day; 3 nights gives you 2 full days; 4 nights gives you 3 full days, etc. You might have part of a day on arrival day and/or departure day depending on when you arrive at your destination and when you leave.

So, I would spend a minimum of 4 nights in Lisbon and a minimum of 4 nights in Prague. An extra night in each place would be nicer for more leisurely exploration, wandering around neighborhoods, etc. Or take a daytrip to Sintra from Lisbon.

Are you asking if you should visit Madrid OR Barcelona? Depends on your interests. Madrid has some outstanding art museums while Barcelona has the very quirky Gaudi buildings. They are very different architecturally and in ambience.
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Old Nov 16th, 2022, 01:34 PM
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If you're looking for another destination in Spain, I can't recommend Valencia highly enough. It has everything including an old city, a glorious beach, a wonderful park and bike lanes.
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Old Nov 17th, 2022, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by KayF View Post
To answer your actual question (instead of offering an opinion) I'd say 3 full days minimum in Lisbon and in Prague. We enjoyed Prague a lot more than Lisbon but everyone is different.
Totally. I've been to Prague twice and I always say that I don't want to go back. I dom't like. It seems to me a completely denatured city occupied by tourists and with hardly any local life (Venice style).
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Old Nov 17th, 2022, 07:35 AM
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IT didn't used to be that way, that's the problem. I mean there were tourists but I've been going there many years and it was really nice a long time ago (Prague). And as usual, those who say there are only tourists and denatured areas have probably not been to a lot of outer neighborhood areas and are only limiting themselves to the center, I imagine.

AS for Wroclaw, I have never hired a private guide in my life, that's just not my style, so can't help on that. BUt you'd have to explain why you think you need a driver, as I can't imagine you think you'd need a driver just for a central city area anywhere, unless there is a disability problem but you say you are active, so it can't be that. IN fact, in lots of European old town/central areas, you can't even drive around much in certain parts. I just go to central sites and read guidebooks/info myself. But since you say your husband was born there, perhaps you are envisioning some excursions to far away cities or rural areas, and that's why you need a driver? I just use the public transportation system in Poland, including trains, but I've never spent time in the countryside, only in towns/cities. I like mingling with the locals on trains/buses.

I don't believe any place "needs" any amount of nights, I think people have to decide for themself based on their interests and what they want to do. That goes for any city.
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