14 summer day trip to Switzerland & Austria
Mar 10th, 2019, 08:59 PM
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14 summer day trip to Switzerland & Austria
I'm beginning to feel very overwhelmed trying to plan a 14 day trip this summer to Switzerland and Austria. Originally, I thought about including part of Germany into this trip but I think it might be too much. Planning to travel June 22-July 7 -or- June 29-July 14. There are so many things to do and I have a horrible habit of packing far too much into a trip to try and squeeze every opportunity out of it to see as much as possible! This drives my husband nuts but he's a good sport. We are far more into doing and seeing than sitting and relaxing. Budget wise we're rather thrifty when we can be but want to enjoy and if that means spending a little more, it's worth it. We are in our 30s and it will be he and I traveling. We love seeing countryside, hiking, enjoying local food, and anything cultural like museums and historical sites. We're not much into shopping. I am an avid equestrian so seeing the Spanish Riding School is absolutely at the top of my list. I'm contemplating going through a travel tour agency (Rick Steves or Trafalgar) but I've never done this before ... I always have planned our trips so we can do what we want, when we want. I'm a bit nervous though as I've never planned a trip overseas and am not fluent in the language. I also don't know the travel options (what trains to take, can I rent a car, is the driving doable, etc.) or where to stay ... those have me most anxious. I was hoping for some help.
Things that look interesting to me:
Austria:
Vienna (Opera House, Wachau Valley, Spanish Riding School), Salzburg, Innsbruck, Neuschwanstein, Salzkammergut, Bad Gastein, Wachau, Donau-Auen National Park, Kitzbuehel
Switzerland:
Mount Pilatus, Lucerne, Zurich, Matterhorn Mountain, Interlaken, Geneva, Bern
I would love to hear from those of you that have experience in these areas if my "things that sound interesting" list is good or what to add/drop. Also, absolutely any suggestions on traveling around to these places as well as how to select hotels I would be ever so grateful!
Things that look interesting to me:
Austria:
Vienna (Opera House, Wachau Valley, Spanish Riding School), Salzburg, Innsbruck, Neuschwanstein, Salzkammergut, Bad Gastein, Wachau, Donau-Auen National Park, Kitzbuehel
Switzerland:
Mount Pilatus, Lucerne, Zurich, Matterhorn Mountain, Interlaken, Geneva, Bern
I would love to hear from those of you that have experience in these areas if my "things that sound interesting" list is good or what to add/drop. Also, absolutely any suggestions on traveling around to these places as well as how to select hotels I would be ever so grateful!
Mar 10th, 2019, 11:17 PM
#2
First, welcome to Fodors! Our first European trip was to Vienna for 6 days; I had two weeks not only to obtain my passport, but to arrange for the grandparents to care for our son; the dog sitters; and to plan! I feel your stress.
There's a lot to unpack in your post.
I will begin with the simple answers:
1. You really don't need a travel tour agency. This part of Europe is easy for do-it-yourselfers.
2. Yes, you can drive in those countries, even without speaking the language. However, for cities like Vienna a car is expensive and not necessary.
3. There is a member here who is a big fan of train travel. He will paste in a paragraph with links to train information for you to peruse.
You have identified your travel as budget conscious. That might rule out Switzerland (Kitzbühl is also expensive.); DH and I were in Geneva recently and a simple fondue lunch for two was €60. Also, in general, the more you move around, the more you spend.
Consider flying into one city and out of another to avoid backtracking; and consider "basing" somewhere and taking day trips to avoid "wasting" time with hotel logistics. I'll use Vienna/Salzburg/Bavaria as an example for a 14* day visit.
*14 days means that you arrive on Day 1 and depart on Day 14. So, really, with jet lag and check-in, etc. you have 12 days to travel. If you mean 14 days on the ground you can tweak this very rough sample itinerary, intended only to give you an idea of how to plan on your own. Everyone will have an opinion on how many days you "need" for a destination; what matters is how many days you feel you need. This means research is required to decide on your priorities.
Day 1. Arrive Vienna. Check-in to hotel, take a nap, have lunch and wander the Inner Stadt.
Day 2 Tackle the 1-2 museums of choice. (Research is required here...) Skip the Tafelspitz and head into the vineyards for an evening at a Heuriger.
Day 3 Tour the Opera and take in an SRS performance. If you're here for "Piber Meets Vienna," it is worth seeing if you manage your expectations. The young horses from the Piber Stud Farm are being "debuted," if you will, and the show is much different from a regular performance.
Day 4 Pick a palace: Schloss Schönbrunn (the Hapsburg summer palace) or Schloss Belvedere (full of Klimt).
Day 5 Travel by train to the Wachau Valley first to Melk to see the Abbey. Tour Dürnstein and/or Krems via the ferry/bus combination. One can even hike to the Durnstein ruins. Overnight somewhere in the Wachau (perhaps the Schloss Hotel Durnstein). (The Donau-Auen National Park is lovely, but in the heat of summer it doesn't hold a candle to the UNESCO Wachau Valley).
Day 6-9 Travel by train to the Salzkammergut. Stay along Wolfgangsee and tour the adorable towns of St. Wolfgang and St. Gilgen (Strobl is nice, too, but you could skip it). Take the Schafbergbahn and/or the Zwölferhorn up to the tops of the respective mountains for outstanding hiking. Eat amazing cuisine and soak in fresh alpine air. Day trip (or, preferably, overnight) in Hallstatt.
Day 10-11 Travel by train to Salzburg.
Day 12-14 Rent a car and head to Bavaria. Tour Neuschwanstein if you must; also consider Linderhof, Schloss Herrencheimsee, Königsee, Ettal Abbey, and so much more (research required...) Take the gondola to the top of Zugspitz (Germany's tallest mountain). Eat great food in Garmisch-Partenkirchen (especially Partenkirchen, with its street of beautiful painted buildings and restaurants with outdoor tables.)
Day 15 Drive to Munich and drop off the car. (You may or may not have a drop-off fee depending on the rental company and the vehicle make.) Wander the Alt Stadt, eat dinner in a Biergarten and pack for your departure the following day.
Day 16 Depart Munich
I hope this is helpful.
There's a lot to unpack in your post.
I will begin with the simple answers:1. You really don't need a travel tour agency. This part of Europe is easy for do-it-yourselfers.
2. Yes, you can drive in those countries, even without speaking the language. However, for cities like Vienna a car is expensive and not necessary.
3. There is a member here who is a big fan of train travel. He will paste in a paragraph with links to train information for you to peruse.
You have identified your travel as budget conscious. That might rule out Switzerland (Kitzbühl is also expensive.); DH and I were in Geneva recently and a simple fondue lunch for two was €60. Also, in general, the more you move around, the more you spend.
Consider flying into one city and out of another to avoid backtracking; and consider "basing" somewhere and taking day trips to avoid "wasting" time with hotel logistics. I'll use Vienna/Salzburg/Bavaria as an example for a 14* day visit.
*14 days means that you arrive on Day 1 and depart on Day 14. So, really, with jet lag and check-in, etc. you have 12 days to travel. If you mean 14 days on the ground you can tweak this very rough sample itinerary, intended only to give you an idea of how to plan on your own. Everyone will have an opinion on how many days you "need" for a destination; what matters is how many days you feel you need. This means research is required to decide on your priorities.
Day 1. Arrive Vienna. Check-in to hotel, take a nap, have lunch and wander the Inner Stadt.
Day 2 Tackle the 1-2 museums of choice. (Research is required here...) Skip the Tafelspitz and head into the vineyards for an evening at a Heuriger.
Day 3 Tour the Opera and take in an SRS performance. If you're here for "Piber Meets Vienna," it is worth seeing if you manage your expectations. The young horses from the Piber Stud Farm are being "debuted," if you will, and the show is much different from a regular performance.
Day 4 Pick a palace: Schloss Schönbrunn (the Hapsburg summer palace) or Schloss Belvedere (full of Klimt).
Day 5 Travel by train to the Wachau Valley first to Melk to see the Abbey. Tour Dürnstein and/or Krems via the ferry/bus combination. One can even hike to the Durnstein ruins. Overnight somewhere in the Wachau (perhaps the Schloss Hotel Durnstein). (The Donau-Auen National Park is lovely, but in the heat of summer it doesn't hold a candle to the UNESCO Wachau Valley).
Day 6-9 Travel by train to the Salzkammergut. Stay along Wolfgangsee and tour the adorable towns of St. Wolfgang and St. Gilgen (Strobl is nice, too, but you could skip it). Take the Schafbergbahn and/or the Zwölferhorn up to the tops of the respective mountains for outstanding hiking. Eat amazing cuisine and soak in fresh alpine air. Day trip (or, preferably, overnight) in Hallstatt.
Day 10-11 Travel by train to Salzburg.
Day 12-14 Rent a car and head to Bavaria. Tour Neuschwanstein if you must; also consider Linderhof, Schloss Herrencheimsee, Königsee, Ettal Abbey, and so much more (research required...) Take the gondola to the top of Zugspitz (Germany's tallest mountain). Eat great food in Garmisch-Partenkirchen (especially Partenkirchen, with its street of beautiful painted buildings and restaurants with outdoor tables.)
Day 15 Drive to Munich and drop off the car. (You may or may not have a drop-off fee depending on the rental company and the vehicle make.) Wander the Alt Stadt, eat dinner in a Biergarten and pack for your departure the following day.
Day 16 Depart Munich
I hope this is helpful.
Mar 11th, 2019, 04:30 AM
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First of all, please do the trip on your own. Your anxiety is quite normal for a first time visit to Europe. But once you have done it, you will wonder why you hadn’t done it before. Many of the areas you intend to go to will be full of English speaking tourists. In subsequent trips, you may become more like us, seeking places far away from many English speaking tourists because even then, it's easy to communicate by pointing and the like. Don’t give the language thing a second thought. There is a lot of stuff in English, and many, probably most, people, especially in tourist areas, have a decent understanding of the English language.
Take things one step at a time. Last fall, we had only 8 days, and our adult daughter wanted to see some of Switzerland, Germany and Austria. The rail system was plentiful, smooth and simple to navigate, and we managed Zurich, Bern, some of the high Alps, castles and a bike ride in Germany, the beginning of Oktoberfest in Munich, Dacau, Salzburg and fabulous Lake Halstatt. We did have perfect weather, which helps when you get into the mountains. Although your itinerary will be different, you can see what can be done in a short time in our trip report: 3 Countries, 8 Places, 8 Nights, Awesome!
We have been to Vienna a couple days at a time on other trips, went to the Riding School performance (they don’t allow photographs), the palaces and much more.
Create a rough itinerary, looking at distances between places. Rome2rio is a good starting point but you will need to confirm actual rail times. Google 24 hours or “x” days in a particular place, and you will find itineraries that others have done.
(I do caution that we travel with only carry-on luggage; we put in long days; and we typically walk 10 miles or so a day.) Your final itinerary will completely depend on your own travel style.
Take things one step at a time. Last fall, we had only 8 days, and our adult daughter wanted to see some of Switzerland, Germany and Austria. The rail system was plentiful, smooth and simple to navigate, and we managed Zurich, Bern, some of the high Alps, castles and a bike ride in Germany, the beginning of Oktoberfest in Munich, Dacau, Salzburg and fabulous Lake Halstatt. We did have perfect weather, which helps when you get into the mountains. Although your itinerary will be different, you can see what can be done in a short time in our trip report: 3 Countries, 8 Places, 8 Nights, Awesome!
We have been to Vienna a couple days at a time on other trips, went to the Riding School performance (they don’t allow photographs), the palaces and much more.
Create a rough itinerary, looking at distances between places. Rome2rio is a good starting point but you will need to confirm actual rail times. Google 24 hours or “x” days in a particular place, and you will find itineraries that others have done.
(I do caution that we travel with only carry-on luggage; we put in long days; and we typically walk 10 miles or so a day.) Your final itinerary will completely depend on your own travel style.
Mar 11th, 2019, 07:43 AM
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I second fourfortravel:
2 weeks isn't enough for a somewhat decent visit of Austria AND Switzerland.
As said above, you will need at least 3 days for Vienna (I suppose you know that the main preformance at the Spanische Reitschule doesn't take place in summer, but you can assist to Piber meets Vienna instead), 1 day for the Wachau trip and 1 day for the Donauauen hike/bikeride. You could spend more time in the area by visiting the Esterhazy castle at Eisenstadt or Lake Neusiedlersee where the open air Viennese operetta preformances will start on July 11th.
I would rather head to Salzburgerland, however, visit Salzburg, Hellbrunn Palace, Eisriesenwelt and some lakes (like Wolfgangsee) and mountains (like Schafberg). Hallstatt or Zell am See would be highly recommended too.
You could then either
cross the Alps (via Grossglockner road or so) to East Tyrol and turn back to Vienna along the many lakes (Millstaettersee, Ossiachersee, Woerthersee, etc.) and castles of Carinthia and through Styria (Graz)
or
proceed to the glaciers of Zillertal or Stubaital and Innsbruck from where you could reach by train either Vienna airport (4 3/4 hrs journey), Munich airport (2 1/2 hrs journey) or Zurich airport (4 hrs journey).
2 weeks isn't enough for a somewhat decent visit of Austria AND Switzerland.
As said above, you will need at least 3 days for Vienna (I suppose you know that the main preformance at the Spanische Reitschule doesn't take place in summer, but you can assist to Piber meets Vienna instead), 1 day for the Wachau trip and 1 day for the Donauauen hike/bikeride. You could spend more time in the area by visiting the Esterhazy castle at Eisenstadt or Lake Neusiedlersee where the open air Viennese operetta preformances will start on July 11th.
I would rather head to Salzburgerland, however, visit Salzburg, Hellbrunn Palace, Eisriesenwelt and some lakes (like Wolfgangsee) and mountains (like Schafberg). Hallstatt or Zell am See would be highly recommended too.
You could then either
cross the Alps (via Grossglockner road or so) to East Tyrol and turn back to Vienna along the many lakes (Millstaettersee, Ossiachersee, Woerthersee, etc.) and castles of Carinthia and through Styria (Graz)
or
proceed to the glaciers of Zillertal or Stubaital and Innsbruck from where you could reach by train either Vienna airport (4 3/4 hrs journey), Munich airport (2 1/2 hrs journey) or Zurich airport (4 hrs journey).
Mar 11th, 2019, 08:58 AM
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Trains are great for all of that - for lots of info on trains and booking own tickets check www.seat61.com; BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.
Mar 11th, 2019, 03:53 PM
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I'm another person who wanted 6 full days for my first visit to Vienna -- and it was a visit when every single moment was packed!
I didn't write a trip report on any of the time I've spent in Austria, but I did write about my month in Switzerland. Even though you have less time than that, it might give you some ideas about which areas would most suit your interests.
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...thanks-983126/
I didn't write a trip report on any of the time I've spent in Austria, but I did write about my month in Switzerland. Even though you have less time than that, it might give you some ideas about which areas would most suit your interests.
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...thanks-983126/
Mar 11th, 2019, 03:59 PM
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NNeuschwanstein is an outlier and though neat (though castle purists diss it because it's an Ersatz castle - built from scratch in mid 1800s as one of Mad Ludwig's fantasy castles. But you really got to cut back and keep bases in a more or less linear way.
Mar 12th, 2019, 01:40 PM
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Thank you all so much for your comments and suggestions. I've done a LOT of work putting this together and here is my tentative agenda. Added a few days to hopefully make this an even better trip. Anyone out there open to taking a look to see if there are things I missed, things I could combine, things that I could drop, if I'm being realistic about my timetable, etc.?
I still don't know what trains to take to and from place to place but I can figure that out online I guess by looking at the timetables. Also, hotels are a big unknown so I'll be researching where to stay in the various locations along with recommended restaurants. I can always research online but I'll always take suggestions for any and all of the above!
Here's what I've put together thus far ...
ARRIVE VIENNA: June 26
-Drop luggage hotel, easy day, start to explore
**Get Vienna Pass: 3 day 107.10**(entry Hofburg Imperial Palace, Schonbrunn Zoo & Palace Grand Tour, Natural History Museum, Danube Tower, Ferris Wheel, SRS Morning Exercise, St. Stephen’s Cathedral Treasury, Joann Strauss Apartment, Beethoven Museum, Belvedere, Haydn House, City Cruises Vienna, Klosterneuburg Monastery, Vienna Sightseeing Tours: Guided Walking Tour, Museum of Natural History, Mozarthaus Vienna, Danube Tower, Hop On/Off Sightseeing Tours)
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 1: June 27
AUSTRIA
Vienna
-Spanish Riding School Morning Exercise 10:00-12:00
-Hofburn Imperial Palace (3 hours)
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 2: June 28
AUSTRIA
Vienna
-Spanish Riding School Performance Category II 11:00, Guided Tour 14:00
-Kunsthistorisches Art Museum (3 hours)
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 3: June 29
AUSTRIA
Vienna
-Mozarthaus (Old Town) (1 hour)
-St. Stephen’s Cathedral (1 hour)
-Vienna State Opera House Guided Tour (1 hour)
-Naschmarkt (largest market)
-Guided Walking Tour?
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 4: June 30
AUSTRIA
Vienna
-Schonbrunn Palace (minimum of half a day, arrive early)
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 5: July 1
AUSTRIA
Vienna —> Hallstatt
-Take train from Vienna to Hallstatt (5 hour trip)
Hallstatt
-Arrive and Drop luggage at hotel
-Salt Mine train ride
-Skywalk viewing platform
-Explore Village
*Overnight in Hallstatt
Day 6: July 2
AUSTRIA
Hallstatt —> Salzburg
-Ferry to Hallstatt Station, train to Bad Ischl, Bus 150 to Salzburg
Salzburg
-Arrive and Drop luggage at hotel
-Werfen Ice Cave (3 hours including travel)
-Hohenwerfen Castle (2 hours)
*Overnight in Salzburg
Day 7: July 3
AUSTRIA
Salzburg
-Mozart’s Birthplace & Museum (2 hours)
-Hohensalzburg Fortress/High Fortress
-Augustinerbrau (beerhall)
-Saint Peter’s Abbey
-Getreidgasse Shopping Street
-Schloss Mirabell Gardens (go early)
-Dom zu Salzburg
*Overnight in Salzburg
Day 8: July 4
AUSTRIA
Salzburg / Innsbruck?
Salzburg —> Zurich
-Direct train using Railjet fiat Arlberg pass (faster than connecting through Munich) (6 hour trip)
-Drop luggage at hotel
*Overnight in Zurich
**Get Swiss Travel Pass (8 day: 418.00)**
Day 9: July 5
SWITZERLAND
Zurich
-Explore Old Town/Altstadt
-Lake Zurich
-Lindenhof
-Bahnhofstrasse (expensive shopping)
-Chagall Windows at Fraumunster Church
-Zurich Opera House
*Overnight in Zurich
Day 10: July 6
SWITZERLAND
Zurich —> Lucerne
-Take train (1 hour trip)
Lucerne
-Arrive and Drop luggage at hotel
-Hike: Murren (Lauterbrunnen to Grutshchalp (take tram or steep trail) then forest path, then village of Murren, route descends to village Gimmelwald, walk or take tram back down to Stechelberg at top of Lauterbrunnen valley, return to Lauterbrunnen by bus or follow riverside trail. 6 miles, 4 hour hike, world’s largest glacial valley
Things to see in Lucerne after hike:
-Chapel Bridge
-Spreuer Bridge
-Jesuit Church
*Overnight in Lucerne
Day 11: July 7
SWITZERLAND
Lucerne
-Mt Pilatus: Golden Round Trip (boat across Lake Lucerne to Alpnachstad, rail to the top, gondolas back down to Kriens, bus back to train station) (5 hours)
*Overnight in Lucerne
Day 12: July 8
SWITZERLAND
Lucerne —> Interlaken
-GoldenPass Line train from Lucerne to Interlaken (sit on right side for best view, 1st class only panoramic windows) (2 hour trip)
Interlaken —>Grindelwald
-Take train from Interlaken to Grindelwald
Grindelwald
-Arrive and Drop Luggage at hotel
-Hike: Eiger Trail (3 hours, same train as up to Jungfraujoch) - take train from Grindelwald to Kleine Scheidegg, change trains, ride Jungrau train up one stop to Eigergletscher, exit train and follow Eiger Trail sign heading to Alpiglen which is endpoint, trail heads northeast under face of Eiger, hike ends at Alpiglen
*Overnight in Grindelwald
Day 13: July 9
SWITZERLAND:
Grindelwald —> Jungfraujoch via train (2 hour trip)
Klein Scheidegg back down
-Ice Palace
Grindelwald —> Zermatt
-Grindelwald to Interlaken OST (Eurocites Train), Interlaken Osst to Speiz (ICE Train or Eurocites Train), Spiez to Visp (Eurocites Train), Visp to Zermatt (Eurocites Train) (3 hour ride)
-Arrive Zermatt and Drop luggage at hotel
*Overnight in Zermatt
Day 14: July 10
SWITZERLAN
Zermatt
-Hike: 5-Seenweg (5 Lakes Walk) (3 hours)
*Overnight Zermatt
Day 15: July 11
SWITZERLAND
Zermatt
Go to Randa
-Hike: Charles Kuonen Suspension Bridge (6 hours with meal at top) - start at Randa train station, chose southernmost trail, 3 hour hike up, steep, on north side of bridge Europaweg trail continues cross ridge Europahutte is small restaurant and hotel, shortest path down to Randa follows same side of gulley as Europahutte, switchbacks, take train back to Zermatt -or- take Gornergrat Bah rail from summit back to Zermatt Station (33 minute ride).
*Overnight Zermatt
Day 16: July 12
SWITZERLAND
Zermatt —> Geneva
-Take train from Zermatt to Geneva (4 hour trip)
Geneva
-2 hour Tour CERN (visitor center: Meyrin, outskirts of Geneva) = Large Hadron Collider
-Boat ride on Lake Geneva
-Explore Old Town
-Guided Tour Palais des Nations
-Jet d’Eau fountain
*Overnight in Geneva
Day 17: July 13
SWITZERLAND
Geneva
*Overnight Geneva
DEPART GENEVA: July 14
I still don't know what trains to take to and from place to place but I can figure that out online I guess by looking at the timetables. Also, hotels are a big unknown so I'll be researching where to stay in the various locations along with recommended restaurants. I can always research online but I'll always take suggestions for any and all of the above!
Here's what I've put together thus far ...
ARRIVE VIENNA: June 26
-Drop luggage hotel, easy day, start to explore
**Get Vienna Pass: 3 day 107.10**(entry Hofburg Imperial Palace, Schonbrunn Zoo & Palace Grand Tour, Natural History Museum, Danube Tower, Ferris Wheel, SRS Morning Exercise, St. Stephen’s Cathedral Treasury, Joann Strauss Apartment, Beethoven Museum, Belvedere, Haydn House, City Cruises Vienna, Klosterneuburg Monastery, Vienna Sightseeing Tours: Guided Walking Tour, Museum of Natural History, Mozarthaus Vienna, Danube Tower, Hop On/Off Sightseeing Tours)
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 1: June 27
AUSTRIA
Vienna
-Spanish Riding School Morning Exercise 10:00-12:00
-Hofburn Imperial Palace (3 hours)
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 2: June 28
AUSTRIA
Vienna
-Spanish Riding School Performance Category II 11:00, Guided Tour 14:00
-Kunsthistorisches Art Museum (3 hours)
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 3: June 29
AUSTRIA
Vienna
-Mozarthaus (Old Town) (1 hour)
-St. Stephen’s Cathedral (1 hour)
-Vienna State Opera House Guided Tour (1 hour)
-Naschmarkt (largest market)
-Guided Walking Tour?
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 4: June 30
AUSTRIA
Vienna
-Schonbrunn Palace (minimum of half a day, arrive early)
*Overnight in Vienna
Day 5: July 1
AUSTRIA
Vienna —> Hallstatt
-Take train from Vienna to Hallstatt (5 hour trip)
Hallstatt
-Arrive and Drop luggage at hotel
-Salt Mine train ride
-Skywalk viewing platform
-Explore Village
*Overnight in Hallstatt
Day 6: July 2
AUSTRIA
Hallstatt —> Salzburg
-Ferry to Hallstatt Station, train to Bad Ischl, Bus 150 to Salzburg
Salzburg
-Arrive and Drop luggage at hotel
-Werfen Ice Cave (3 hours including travel)
-Hohenwerfen Castle (2 hours)
*Overnight in Salzburg
Day 7: July 3
AUSTRIA
Salzburg
-Mozart’s Birthplace & Museum (2 hours)
-Hohensalzburg Fortress/High Fortress
-Augustinerbrau (beerhall)
-Saint Peter’s Abbey
-Getreidgasse Shopping Street
-Schloss Mirabell Gardens (go early)
-Dom zu Salzburg
*Overnight in Salzburg
Day 8: July 4
AUSTRIA
Salzburg / Innsbruck?
Salzburg —> Zurich
-Direct train using Railjet fiat Arlberg pass (faster than connecting through Munich) (6 hour trip)
-Drop luggage at hotel
*Overnight in Zurich
**Get Swiss Travel Pass (8 day: 418.00)**
Day 9: July 5
SWITZERLAND
Zurich
-Explore Old Town/Altstadt
-Lake Zurich
-Lindenhof
-Bahnhofstrasse (expensive shopping)
-Chagall Windows at Fraumunster Church
-Zurich Opera House
*Overnight in Zurich
Day 10: July 6
SWITZERLAND
Zurich —> Lucerne
-Take train (1 hour trip)
Lucerne
-Arrive and Drop luggage at hotel
-Hike: Murren (Lauterbrunnen to Grutshchalp (take tram or steep trail) then forest path, then village of Murren, route descends to village Gimmelwald, walk or take tram back down to Stechelberg at top of Lauterbrunnen valley, return to Lauterbrunnen by bus or follow riverside trail. 6 miles, 4 hour hike, world’s largest glacial valley
Things to see in Lucerne after hike:
-Chapel Bridge
-Spreuer Bridge
-Jesuit Church
*Overnight in Lucerne
Day 11: July 7
SWITZERLAND
Lucerne
-Mt Pilatus: Golden Round Trip (boat across Lake Lucerne to Alpnachstad, rail to the top, gondolas back down to Kriens, bus back to train station) (5 hours)
*Overnight in Lucerne
Day 12: July 8
SWITZERLAND
Lucerne —> Interlaken
-GoldenPass Line train from Lucerne to Interlaken (sit on right side for best view, 1st class only panoramic windows) (2 hour trip)
Interlaken —>Grindelwald
-Take train from Interlaken to Grindelwald
Grindelwald
-Arrive and Drop Luggage at hotel
-Hike: Eiger Trail (3 hours, same train as up to Jungfraujoch) - take train from Grindelwald to Kleine Scheidegg, change trains, ride Jungrau train up one stop to Eigergletscher, exit train and follow Eiger Trail sign heading to Alpiglen which is endpoint, trail heads northeast under face of Eiger, hike ends at Alpiglen
*Overnight in Grindelwald
Day 13: July 9
SWITZERLAND:
Grindelwald —> Jungfraujoch via train (2 hour trip)
Klein Scheidegg back down
-Ice Palace
Grindelwald —> Zermatt
-Grindelwald to Interlaken OST (Eurocites Train), Interlaken Osst to Speiz (ICE Train or Eurocites Train), Spiez to Visp (Eurocites Train), Visp to Zermatt (Eurocites Train) (3 hour ride)
-Arrive Zermatt and Drop luggage at hotel
*Overnight in Zermatt
Day 14: July 10
SWITZERLAN
Zermatt
-Hike: 5-Seenweg (5 Lakes Walk) (3 hours)
*Overnight Zermatt
Day 15: July 11
SWITZERLAND
Zermatt
Go to Randa
-Hike: Charles Kuonen Suspension Bridge (6 hours with meal at top) - start at Randa train station, chose southernmost trail, 3 hour hike up, steep, on north side of bridge Europaweg trail continues cross ridge Europahutte is small restaurant and hotel, shortest path down to Randa follows same side of gulley as Europahutte, switchbacks, take train back to Zermatt -or- take Gornergrat Bah rail from summit back to Zermatt Station (33 minute ride).
*Overnight Zermatt
Day 16: July 12
SWITZERLAND
Zermatt —> Geneva
-Take train from Zermatt to Geneva (4 hour trip)
Geneva
-2 hour Tour CERN (visitor center: Meyrin, outskirts of Geneva) = Large Hadron Collider
-Boat ride on Lake Geneva
-Explore Old Town
-Guided Tour Palais des Nations
-Jet d’Eau fountain
*Overnight in Geneva
Day 17: July 13
SWITZERLAND
Geneva
*Overnight Geneva
DEPART GENEVA: July 14
Mar 12th, 2019, 04:24 PM
#10
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Full disclosure: I’m not reading your revised itineary closely.
BUT Day 10 makes no sense to me. The hike from Mürren to Grutschalp should be taken while you are in the Bernese Oberland, not from Lucerne.
Day 12: Do you list Interlaken simply because you are passing through it? Or do you have some specific reason for visiting it?
BUT Day 10 makes no sense to me. The hike from Mürren to Grutschalp should be taken while you are in the Bernese Oberland, not from Lucerne.
Day 12: Do you list Interlaken simply because you are passing through it? Or do you have some specific reason for visiting it?
Mar 12th, 2019, 06:14 PM
#11
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Full disclosure: I’m not reading your revised itineary closely.
BUT Day 10 makes no sense to me. The hike from Mürren to Grutschalp should be taken while you are in the Bernese Oberland, not from Lucerne.
Day 12: Do you list Interlaken simply because you are passing through it? Or do you have some specific reason for visiting it?
BUT Day 10 makes no sense to me. The hike from Mürren to Grutschalp should be taken while you are in the Bernese Oberland, not from Lucerne.
Day 12: Do you list Interlaken simply because you are passing through it? Or do you have some specific reason for visiting it?
I listed Interlaken because the GoldenPass Line train goes from Lucerne to Interlaken. That train trip gets great reviews. Otherwise, no reason to go to Interlaken. You'll see on Day 12, after the GoldenPass Line, we take the train from Interlaken to Grindelwald where we plan to home out of for a few hikes.
Mar 12th, 2019, 06:20 PM
#12
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I remember how difficult it was to make sense of all the place names and options -- a process made more difficult by the use of different naming conventions in various resources. 
If you don't already have it, please get the Michelin Green Guide to Switzerland -- you'll find a wealth of information there!
If you check the sbb website (Swiss rail) you can see -- and plan -- routes that cover the same scenic paths as the named lines and that get you to where you want to go.
If you don't already have it, please get the Michelin Green Guide to Switzerland -- you'll find a wealth of information there!If you check the sbb website (Swiss rail) you can see -- and plan -- routes that cover the same scenic paths as the named lines and that get you to where you want to go.
Mar 13th, 2019, 12:09 AM
#13
Several thoughts about Vienna, and but a couple on Geneva.
1. The Vienna Pass is economical for what you wish to see. You might consider adding the Travelcard; queuing for the Vienna HOHO bus can eat valuable sightseeing time.
2. Your time for Hofburg might be a bit long. Yes, there are many, many dishes to look at, but not so many that three hours will be needed.
3. On Day 2, how will you fit the KHM into the day? The SRS performance is from 11-12, and the Tour is from 14-15. You don't have time in between to see KHM (even the highlights at a fast pace); and the museum closes at 1800, which means you'll have about 2 hours at the back end of the day. Can you move KHM to Day 1 (Thursday), when the museum is open until 2100, and put Hofburg on Day 2, since you'll be there for SRS anyway?
4. Naschmarkt is an absolute zoo on Saturdays (Day 3) because of the flea market and the pop-up sellers with their wares splayed across picnic tarps and whatnot. If you can go another day your experience will be enhanced. If you are seeking lunch at Naschmarkt, Fischviertel am Naschmarkt is quite good; Beisl Naschmarkt is so very not good. Tewa am Naschmarkt's idea of a hummus bowl is revolting, with everything piled unceremoniously atop the pureed chickpeas. Just my €0,02.
Overall, on Days 1 and 2 you are in a restaurant wasteland. Glacis Beisl is one option in the MQ, assuming you can get a table. Hofburg operates a cafe and the outside tables will be available for rather ordinary Austrian cuisine (and pastries). Perhaps after your Opera tour, drop into Gerstner's and sit upstairs in the palace rooms while enjoying a torte.
On your Schönbrunn day you'll have the options of the Residence Cafe (serving the same fare at the Hofburg Cafe as they are part of a small "chain."); the Restaurant Kutscher adjacent to the Carriage Museum (rather acceptable Austrian fare); and the Gasthof Tirolergarten deep into the gardens. The Gasthof is particularly enjoyable with its shaded outside tables and serving, naturally Tirolean cuisine.
The Summer Festival at Rathaus opens on 29 June (Day 3); we anticipate it not for the films, but for the numerous restaurants that open stalls--it's a great way to try different cuisines (the Croatian stand is usually the first one we go to.)
As for Geneva, we enjoyed our tour of CERN (we are both STEM nerds). Consider adding the International Red Cross Museum to your visit since you'll be in the near when touring the U.N.; we found it to be a highlight of our visit.
1. The Vienna Pass is economical for what you wish to see. You might consider adding the Travelcard; queuing for the Vienna HOHO bus can eat valuable sightseeing time.
2. Your time for Hofburg might be a bit long. Yes, there are many, many dishes to look at, but not so many that three hours will be needed.
3. On Day 2, how will you fit the KHM into the day? The SRS performance is from 11-12, and the Tour is from 14-15. You don't have time in between to see KHM (even the highlights at a fast pace); and the museum closes at 1800, which means you'll have about 2 hours at the back end of the day. Can you move KHM to Day 1 (Thursday), when the museum is open until 2100, and put Hofburg on Day 2, since you'll be there for SRS anyway?
4. Naschmarkt is an absolute zoo on Saturdays (Day 3) because of the flea market and the pop-up sellers with their wares splayed across picnic tarps and whatnot. If you can go another day your experience will be enhanced. If you are seeking lunch at Naschmarkt, Fischviertel am Naschmarkt is quite good; Beisl Naschmarkt is so very not good. Tewa am Naschmarkt's idea of a hummus bowl is revolting, with everything piled unceremoniously atop the pureed chickpeas. Just my €0,02.
Overall, on Days 1 and 2 you are in a restaurant wasteland. Glacis Beisl is one option in the MQ, assuming you can get a table. Hofburg operates a cafe and the outside tables will be available for rather ordinary Austrian cuisine (and pastries). Perhaps after your Opera tour, drop into Gerstner's and sit upstairs in the palace rooms while enjoying a torte.
On your Schönbrunn day you'll have the options of the Residence Cafe (serving the same fare at the Hofburg Cafe as they are part of a small "chain."); the Restaurant Kutscher adjacent to the Carriage Museum (rather acceptable Austrian fare); and the Gasthof Tirolergarten deep into the gardens. The Gasthof is particularly enjoyable with its shaded outside tables and serving, naturally Tirolean cuisine.
The Summer Festival at Rathaus opens on 29 June (Day 3); we anticipate it not for the films, but for the numerous restaurants that open stalls--it's a great way to try different cuisines (the Croatian stand is usually the first one we go to.)
As for Geneva, we enjoyed our tour of CERN (we are both STEM nerds). Consider adding the International Red Cross Museum to your visit since you'll be in the near when touring the U.N.; we found it to be a highlight of our visit.
Mar 13th, 2019, 09:41 AM
#14
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Your plans are perfectly feasible, except the Viennese KHM (Fourfortravel) and Muerren thing (Kja).
Some remarks nevertheless:
I wouldn't have sacrified the Danube boat trip from Melk to Krems.
Zurich is a nice city, but by far not the most interesting one of Switzerland. Zurich Opera house can by no means compete with the Wiener Staatsoper; skip it. If you want to see a really nice medieval Swiss citxy center, go to Berne or Murten instead of Zurich.
Conclusion: I would go directly from Salzburg to Lucerne.
Gems of Lucerne: Chapel Bridge and medieval center, best seen with a guided tour; Glacier Garden, Swiss Transport Museum, Rosengart Collection.
Kuonen Bridge: it's just a rop bridge as there are many in the Alps. IMO it doesn't make much sense to climb up 2200 ft from Randa up to the brige and to go back more or less the same way. I would rather go by rope railway from Zermatt to Sunnegga (7500 ft) and walk from there along the Europa Trail more or less at the same altitude to Taeschalpe (7500 ft) - Brand (6400 ft) - Tierfaed (7300 ft) - Kuonen Bridge (7500 ft).
Whatever you decide, it doesn't make sense to do Kuonen Bridge and Gornergrat the same day. You could easily do a panoramic full day hiek in the Gornerfratnarea.
Some remarks nevertheless:
I wouldn't have sacrified the Danube boat trip from Melk to Krems.
Zurich is a nice city, but by far not the most interesting one of Switzerland. Zurich Opera house can by no means compete with the Wiener Staatsoper; skip it. If you want to see a really nice medieval Swiss citxy center, go to Berne or Murten instead of Zurich.
Conclusion: I would go directly from Salzburg to Lucerne.
Gems of Lucerne: Chapel Bridge and medieval center, best seen with a guided tour; Glacier Garden, Swiss Transport Museum, Rosengart Collection.
Kuonen Bridge: it's just a rop bridge as there are many in the Alps. IMO it doesn't make much sense to climb up 2200 ft from Randa up to the brige and to go back more or less the same way. I would rather go by rope railway from Zermatt to Sunnegga (7500 ft) and walk from there along the Europa Trail more or less at the same altitude to Taeschalpe (7500 ft) - Brand (6400 ft) - Tierfaed (7300 ft) - Kuonen Bridge (7500 ft).
Whatever you decide, it doesn't make sense to do Kuonen Bridge and Gornergrat the same day. You could easily do a panoramic full day hiek in the Gornerfratnarea.
Mar 13th, 2019, 10:05 AM
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It would also be possible to reach Switzerland through the Alps, may be like this:
Day 8:
Salzburg dp 7.56 by train to Landeck ar 10.31, dp by Postbus 10.56 to Scuol-Tarasp ar 12.27, one of the most scenic Sswiss mountain villages. Have lunch, enjoy the thermal spa, visit the castle and the viewpoint Motta Naluns (gondola). Sleep at Samedan (1 hr from Scuol, bus/train every hr).
Day 9:
Leave Samedan by GLACIER EXPRESS at 9.25 up to Andermatt ar 13.52, dp 14.40 by Schoellenen and Gotthard train to Fluelen ar 15.41, dp 16.00 by historic Lake Lucerne paddle steamboat to Lucerne ar 18.47.
Day 8:
Salzburg dp 7.56 by train to Landeck ar 10.31, dp by Postbus 10.56 to Scuol-Tarasp ar 12.27, one of the most scenic Sswiss mountain villages. Have lunch, enjoy the thermal spa, visit the castle and the viewpoint Motta Naluns (gondola). Sleep at Samedan (1 hr from Scuol, bus/train every hr).
Day 9:
Leave Samedan by GLACIER EXPRESS at 9.25 up to Andermatt ar 13.52, dp 14.40 by Schoellenen and Gotthard train to Fluelen ar 15.41, dp 16.00 by historic Lake Lucerne paddle steamboat to Lucerne ar 18.47.
Mar 13th, 2019, 09:06 PM
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fourfortravel: Thanks for telling me about the Travelcard and the suggestions about swapping the Hofburg and KHM, I changed my itinerary to reflect your suggestion. So appreciate you telling me about Naschmarkt being a zoo on Saturday, I had not even considered that. Will add Red Cross Museum to the list, that sounds very interesting. And THANK YOU for all the restaurant suggestions (and places to avoid!)! So very helpful!! In regard to your comment on us being in a restaurant wasteland Day 1 & 2, that's really good to know about that area. I'm trying to figure out where to get a hotel. I have no idea on hotels over there but am a Hilton regular so was considering one of the two Hilton properties in Vienna. Is there a best area to stay? I see a lot of comments to stay in the city center but I'm not sure where exactly the great spots are vs the areas that might not be so great.
neckervd: Your comment in reference to the Danube boat trip from Melk to Krems ... I didn't know about that. Will definitely look into it. I'll also look into Bern and Murten, I don't know anything about those areas. Do you have any suggestions on what to do since you recommend them so highly? I kind of hate to skip Zurich as many people had commented about Altstadt but if there's something better, I'm not against dropping Zurich for it. You commented on going straight from Salzburg to Lucerne ... would I put Bern and Murten after Lucerne? I'm a little confused on how to work those in. I'd love to go through the Alps and use your itinerary suggestion there. I don't know where all these towns are so have to pin them all on a map. Will definitely look into Europa Trail section you mentioned, thanks! I think the hike I'm most excited for is the Eiger Trail. Oh, and thanks for the honest opinion of the suspension bridge.
PalenQ: Will look into fitting your suggestion in the itinerary, really appreciate the suggestion! More stuff I didn't know about!
Thank you all for your continued comments. I feel overwhelmed reading them since I have no idea where anything is but quickly get my map pulled back up and start plotting all the suggestions in there. Not that I can't come back again and visit Austria and Switzerland but I'm trying to make the very most out of this first trip
neckervd: Your comment in reference to the Danube boat trip from Melk to Krems ... I didn't know about that. Will definitely look into it. I'll also look into Bern and Murten, I don't know anything about those areas. Do you have any suggestions on what to do since you recommend them so highly? I kind of hate to skip Zurich as many people had commented about Altstadt but if there's something better, I'm not against dropping Zurich for it. You commented on going straight from Salzburg to Lucerne ... would I put Bern and Murten after Lucerne? I'm a little confused on how to work those in. I'd love to go through the Alps and use your itinerary suggestion there. I don't know where all these towns are so have to pin them all on a map. Will definitely look into Europa Trail section you mentioned, thanks! I think the hike I'm most excited for is the Eiger Trail. Oh, and thanks for the honest opinion of the suspension bridge.
PalenQ: Will look into fitting your suggestion in the itinerary, really appreciate the suggestion! More stuff I didn't know about!
Thank you all for your continued comments. I feel overwhelmed reading them since I have no idea where anything is but quickly get my map pulled back up and start plotting all the suggestions in there. Not that I can't come back again and visit Austria and Switzerland but I'm trying to make the very most out of this first trip
Mar 13th, 2019, 09:10 PM
#18
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Consult booking.com
Yep, a map is the way to go! That, and (as already noted) a really good guidebook.
Yep, a map is the way to go! That, and (as already noted) a really good guidebook.
Mar 14th, 2019, 12:14 AM
#19
The Hilton Schottentor is atop an U-Bahn station and within steps of 3 Straßenbahn (trams) lines that run along the Ringstraße, putting KHM, Hofburg/SRS and Opera just minutes away. The U-Bahn line (U2) also easily connects to the U4 to Schloss Schönbrunn. The Vienna Sightseeing Bus (associated with your Vienna Pass) has a stop one block away. Its Brasserie, Emile, serves quite good French cuisine.
There are two U-Bahn lines nearby (U3/U4) the Hilton Am Stadtpark, but only one Straßenbahn line. I do not know if there is a HOHO stop nearby.
Both areas are fine in terms of safety. Schottentor is on the Ringstraße; Stadtpark is on a busy road. Schottentor has more access to public. All things being equal, with your itinerary I would stay at Schottentor.
There are two U-Bahn lines nearby (U3/U4) the Hilton Am Stadtpark, but only one Straßenbahn line. I do not know if there is a HOHO stop nearby.
Both areas are fine in terms of safety. Schottentor is on the Ringstraße; Stadtpark is on a busy road. Schottentor has more access to public. All things being equal, with your itinerary I would stay at Schottentor.
Mar 14th, 2019, 01:08 AM
#20
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May be you will have a look at https://www.myswitzerland.com/en
